fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1650 ]

[ SECRET POST #1650 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1650 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 207 secrets from Secret Submission Post #236.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 1 2 - omgiknowthatotherOP ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You would if you were the English National Opera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_National_Opera

I take it you never read books in translation either?

If I can read it in the original language, then no - I don't read the translation. But I do think it's different with music. Especially because, as said above, you can just have surtitles so people understand and leave the original piece intact.

And how many languages have you had the very fortunate opportunity to learn well enough to read fluently?

5...6 with some effort. Which I realize is only a small fraction of books. But then I HAVE read some works in both the original and in translation. And quite often it does lose something in translation, especially if the writing is supposed to be more poetic or evocative...

Lucky you. You clearly have considerable natural talent for learning languages, plus sufficient opportunity to devote the time to studying them. Others are not so fortunate. Ought they not read translations for fear of missing some nuance? Ditto, should they be obliged to put up with the distraction of surtitling rather than enjoying a skillful translation by talented translator? And what would you suggest I do, given that my eyesight is too poor to properly read surtitles? How to you expect adults with literacy difficulties or young children who can't yet read fluently to enjoy opera and musical theatre? Or do they not matter?

Okay, I'm not the anon you've been conversing with, and I get what you're saying about the musicals and operas, but you realize that this comment makes you sound like a pretentious, over-priveleged douche, right?

This +1,000,000,000,000,000.

Seriously, OP, I can see why this is a secret. You sound like a first class douchnozzle, and frankly I don't believe you're honestly offended by translated musicals or operas; I think you just want to show off how "gifted" and "discerning" you are.

Some of us weren't given the chance to learn multiple languages and are too busy as adults making a fucking living to pick up multiple languages now. I guess we're just SOL and we don't deserve to enjoy theatre or operas without reading along the whole time (which, btw, takes away from actually watching the performance onstage.)

Oh, FFS, not this gifted wank again...

Gifted wank? Enlighten me... I've never heard of such a thing. Should I have used the term "special snowflake" instead?

No, there was a thread last week...

you're honestly offended by translated musicals or operas.
I'm not offended. Offense is personal. I find it grating.

I think you just want to show off how "gifted" and "discerning" you are.

Hardly. Someone asked me how many languages I could read - otherwise I would not even have mentioned it. And besides: There are hundreds of languages. Speaking 2 or speaking 5 doesn't really make that much of a difference. If I do not know a language (and Italian IS one of the languages I don't know, btw) I also have to read the subtitles. Or read the programme. Or actually research what it is about before going to see it.

Most people, I imagine, would prefer to treat a trip to see a musical as an entertainment to be enjoyed rather than as an exam they need to study for. Musical theatre is intended as popular mass entertainment, after all, and that is how most of the audience will regard it and they will want it to be readily understandable. Most international productions simply wouldn't happen if the libretto was not localised. Always supposing you could get the singers, do you honestly think you'd get the audience, apart from a handful of musical theatre geeks?

Honestly? As someone who speaks 2/3 languages and who finds plenty of translations to be better than the original, I'd kindly ask you to get the fuck over yourself.
Not everyone has your (or mine, by association) privilege of speaking many languages. Subtitles detract from the performance and enjoying the MUSIC and having such a nice bunch of variations in the lyrics according to language is what IMO makes translation a new richness, and not something that ruins the original.
Are you one of those who think movies shouldn't ever be dubbed? Or that disney songs should be all kept in english?

...and by 2/3 I mean 2 and with some effort 3. Damn, I wish I could have an anon edit button :(

Are you one of those who think movies shouldn't ever be dubbed?

I absolutely think that. It's horrid. I can sort of understand it for Disney songs because the target audience are children.

if you don't believe that this shows the beauty dubbing can do then you have no fucking soul

Wow, thank you for linking this. (So many translations! Flemish! Who knew they translated English films into Flemish?)

Us over here in Flanders. I hope your comment wasn't meant to come off as douchey.

No, I'm admitting, honestly, how ignorant I am! I'm delighted to learn that American filmmakers actually take the time to get a film into languages that I'm guessing most of us self-centered Americans have hardly even heard of--me very much included. I didn't even know where Flemish was spoken before I saw this video and looked it up! But I am particularly glad to have been given the enlightenment, and to know just how far filmmakers go to make movies accessible world-wide.

I am actualfax crying right now. Thanks for sharing that. It WAS beautiful.

Oh my gosh, this is gorgeous. I'd forgotten how much I loved this movie, and this makes me love it more. Thank you. ♥

Surprise: a lot of languages, especially French, have improved on the original Disney version.

Not the OP, but I think dubbing and translation should not always be lumped together. Translations are definitely important and often great works in their own right, not to mention a wonderful way of bringing good works to a wider audience. I feel that dubbing animated movies is similar to translating literature or plays or anything, but dubbing live-action films is a whole another matter. In animation, the visual presentation of the character is not directly married to its voice. Naturally, voice actors are picked with care, and in my experience, most dub casting tries to find similar voices in order to maintain the creators' idea of the character. Meanwhile, in live-action, the voice of the actor is an integral part of their overall performance, causing any dub to diminish and alter it. While in animation, a new dub replaces the earlier one, in live-action, it leaves behind a kind of a half-performance.

In live-action movies aimed at children dubbing can still be the preferable alternative, but in those aimed at adult audiences, the subtitles enable the audience to see a particular actor's entire performance as they intended it, and they can still enjoy the dialogue in their own language. (Subtitles are a great language learning tool as well. I'd know hardly any English if it wasn't for subtitles. :))

Alter, yes. Diminish, no. Not necessarily. Hell, in many cases, it can even add.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1650 ]

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