[ SECRET POST #1650 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1650 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 207 secrets from Secret Submission Post #236.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 1 2 - omgiknowthatotherOP ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

23. http://i56.tinypic.com/n6qf5d.png

[foreverrhapsody.livejournal.com]

I hope you mean French, because that's what the original libretto was in.

[wrestlingdog.livejournal.com]

[Whoops, commented in the wrong place, sorry.]

[kitty-wake.livejournal.com]

What? Libretti can be, and quite often are, translated. And I can't say it's really hurt any of the operas I've seen to hear them sung in English. I've enjoyed "The Magic Flute" just as much as I did "Die Zauberflöte". In fact, had I heard "The Barber of Seville" in Italian, it would probably have lost a lot as the only Italian words I know are part of musical terminology and I appreciated being able to understand the jokes.

[perrie.livejournal.com]

Yes they do. They're called 'surtitles', and they're hung at the side of the stage so audiences can understand the libretto.

[solo-by-choice.livejournal.com]

I don't know about Les Mis, but Die Fledermause and Cyrano de Bergerac are both fabulous in English. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon, but more power to you if you can enjoy both, I say.

[pookieandpookie.livejournal.com]

Except translating an Italian Opera is done all the time. It's called English National Opera.

[(Anonymous)]

Surely translating something effectively is a creative talent in itself - maintaining the spirit of the original while respecting the idioms of the new language? I don't see anything inherently wrong with doing this; it makes the original accessible to many more people. Since you mentioned Les Mis particularly, I cite this example of how local translations are cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4924xJl38E

:)

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Most of the operas I've seen have been translated into English, and frequently the jokes are transformed into something local too (especially in Die Fliedermaus.) A good translation can be very good indeed, and a good story can withstand translation, even if the translation isn't the best.

Yes, OP, the power of the original words matters, but not to the point where it impossible for the story to be known in different words.

[pargoletta.livejournal.com]

Well, admittedly, operas tend to be sung in translation less often today than in the past, thanks to the invention of electronic surtitles. But in the great heyday of Italian opera, translations were actually fairly common. Even today, some operas have been filmed in translation -- Ingmar Bergman's hilariously crack-a-licious Die Zauberflöte is sung in Swedish (which just makes it funnier), and I've seen a gorgeous and relatively recent Dialogues des carmélites filmed in English, so well sung that it was perfectly easy to understand.

[lady-lilith.livejournal.com]

Um, yes, they are frequently translated. And how on earth could bringing such great music to more people ever be a bad thing?! Entitlement drives me up the wall, especially in theatre. (Shakespeare was for the masses!)

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I'm only fluent in English, and there are a number of non-English musicals I love and of which I live in terror of a future bad English translation. But I'm frightened by the potential for those translations to suck, not out of any principle, to be honest. Poor translations can kill music, just kill it. I've seen some great, absolutely wonderful English translations of non-English musicals, so I know it isn't completely hopeless. But the potential for suck is immense.

[flipthefrog.livejournal.com]

I got an entire book of translated opera choruses says you're wrong. Besides the sub/surtitles, often local translations are given to the actors to make sure that they understand what the original meaning and emotional content of the words.

Also, off the top of my head, the Elton John version of Aida is based off of the Verdi Aida, so there's an Italian opera that was not only translated into English, but was phenomenally successful as such. I suppose German light opera is less ~high class~ than Italian opera, but Bertoldt Brecht's works also seem to be far more popular in English than in German, and there are a few translations of Threepenny that are insanely well-done. (And the Threepenny Opera in itself is an adaptation of a 18th century English ballad opera.)

[(Anonymous)]

You would if you were the English National Opera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_National_Opera

I take it you never read books in translation either?

[caesaria.livejournal.com]

Idk. I saw this musical in German when I was, idk, 12/13 years old. It made a profound impact on me and is my favorite musical of all time, still. I wouldn't have understood half of it if I'd have seen it in English/French/whatever language the original was.

Of course once I was able to understand the English version, I listened to that and love it, too. But as a kid, the German version was what made me get into musicals in the first place. So I can't hate ;-)

[(Anonymous)]

What happens in, for example, the Philippines if they have trouble casting enough singers who have good enough French to perform it? There are about 25 singing parts plus chorus, yes? Would you rather have it sung indistinctly but in accordance with the original libretto over having it sung in translation? Many countries will encounter casting difficulties if the original libretto is insisted upon. Opera training generally involves intensive language study, but most musical theatre performers don't have classical opera training and would not be able to do justice to a libretto in an unfamiliar language

[randomrape.livejournal.com]

It's true an original will always be special, but there are also some good neat translations out there.
I am fluent in three languages and I quite understand some french too, and as a Les Mis fan, I adore collecting records in different languages, because every one of them has its own special feeling, and lots of my favorites are not the ones in the original french.
And really, if the musical is translated so you can actually understand what they say, what is the harm?

[(Anonymous)]

along with your comments below, that makes you sound pretty damn full of yourself, sorry to say

not everyone can speak 5-6 languages (heck 2/3 is already a big start) and honestly, it's nice to listen to something in one's native language for a change.

[(Anonymous)]

this anon never knew that Les Miserables was not originally written in English! :O How on earth did I never hear of this??

[(Anonymous)]

Just regard it as a remake, the way films and TV shows are sometimes remade in different languages. It doesn't detract from the original any more than adapting it for the stage from the original novel does. Same source material, just adapted in different ways, that's all. If you prefer it in French, just enjoy in French. It's no skin off your nose if people choose to enjoy a different adaptation, is it?

[ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com]

Random cool story, bro: I just saw Wicked for the first time... in Japanese (I mean, it was my first time seeing it ever).

Now, I'll admit, there's a lot of really clever rhyming and double meanings that got lost when they translated it over, since Japanese has no rhyming and very little punning. But I watched the American one on youtube later, and to be honest -- BLASPHEMY, I KNOW, -- liked the Japanese one better.

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

But translation is also an art. And part of the beauty of the written word is understanding it.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh please, get over yourself for a second.

Les Mis was in french was for its opening run and it was hugely, massively unsuccessful and open for a couple of months before being closed. It was the English translation that made it what it now is.

Resentful much?

[(Anonymous)]

First of all, operas are generally translated in a lot of Europe afaik, and shakespeare is commonly translated too.

While it is certainly true that there may be some changes from the original that might make the work slightly lesser, overall these productions are written for one to be able to marry the lyrics and the music seamlessly, and isn't that an important element to keep? The composers didn't write it for people to be reading along to words they didn't understand as it was in a different language. I think that's more in keeping with the spirit of the piece rather than keeping every last subtlety.

Yes, you could argue that we should learn the language, but I have no gift for it, nor do I have the time to learn German, French, and Italian, among others, even though I like opera.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, let's not make things accessible to the roturier, so the haut monde (like us) can enjoy the finer things in life without them sullying the experience.