[ SECRET POST #1652 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1652 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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03.
[Burlesque, Christina Aguilera]


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04.
[Pretty Little Liars]


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05.
[Suburban Knights]


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06.
[Veronica Mars]


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08.
[Glee]


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12.
[Harold Lloyd]


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14.
[5 Days a Stranger]


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15.
[The Laws of Magic]


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16.
[Megaman]


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17.
[Uncharted]


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19.
[Sherlock]


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20.
[The Land Before Time VII: The Stone of Cold Fire]


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22.
[Mass Effect]


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23.
[Ano Hana]


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24.
[Colonymired, Blocklocked and Team Paradox]


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25.
[David Bowie, The Hunger Games]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 130 secrets from Secret Submission Post #236.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - not English ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Which I just don't get. Not everybody has to believe in God, but everybody is born with a sex, whether they like it, feel like it fits them or not. And for me - barring trans issues, I suppose -- gender is an extension of sex (and a fairly useless one at that, because while societally it seems to function as a sort of shorthand for sex, it's not like there's any one way to be a boy or or a girl).

[(Anonymous)]

If there's no "correct" way to be a boy or a girl, why does society criticize those who go against the norm so much? Why do you look at a character and decide that he is "boyish" or she is "girly" or he is "girly" and she is a "tomboy"? So to you then, do the words "masculine" and "feminine" mean... absolutely nothing, because there's no one way to be masculine and no one way to be feminine? You might be a time traveler from the post-gender future but trust me, it matters to everyone else (perhaps too much).

You might argue that well, why does it matter what other people think? You can just pick one and do whatever you want. Well what if you don't think either option fits you? And there are only two options to choose from, it's either one or the other, according to you or most of society. You can be a masculine girl but you must still be a girl. You can be a girly boy but you must still be a boy. If you feel like neither or something in between, you have to pick one anyways because it makes everyone else comfortable! God! Just take one for the team, like all those gay people who never tell anyone they're gay.

tl;dr: "there's no one way to be a boy or a girl." So if boy and girl are so meaningless, why does everyone have to pick one in the first place?

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like I'm being insulted somewhere in this comment, but I'm not quite sure how or why.

I really don't know how to respond to a whole lot of this, other than to say I never said anything about "picking a gender."

[(Anonymous)]

It wasn't directed toward you, more like the world in general.

My question was more: if you feel gender has no bearing on identity, then why bother to identify as male or female in the first place? Shouldn't identifying as male or female confuse you just as much as not identifying as either of them, then?

[(Anonymous)]

if you feel gender has no bearing on identity, then why bother to identify as male or female in the first place?

Because (in general) people are born with sex traits that determine their sex/gender. I have a vagina, uterus and ovaries* -- I was born female. My brother has a penis and testicles. He is male.

I love monster trucks and baseball and I hate dresses and makeup with every fiber of my being. That doesn't mean I'm not a girl -- I'm just a girl who likes monster trucks, baseball and hates dresses/makeup. Obviously it's a little different for people who are trans, but I GET trans-ness. I still don't get genderqueer.

*Please, let's not turn this into a "What about women who've had hysterectomies?!!! Are they not women anymore?!" wankfest.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

You don't "get" genderqueer because you're conflating sex and gender. Sex traits do not determine a person's gender -- and even if they did, what about intersexed people? Do they have to "pick a side and stick with it," like doctors did at birth for many of them?

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

*Sigh* I knew intersexed would come up at some point. I had hoped the "in general" would cover my bases. Because I really don't have an answer for that.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, if you GET transness and don't GET genderqueer, I don't think you really GET transness at all. If someone was born a man and hated dresses and makeup with every fiber of her being, and loved monster trucks and baseball, you'd be asking why didn't she just stay a man, right? Because otherwise, if you understood that being a girl who loves monster trucks and being a guy who loves monster trucks is different because that's how they identify, you'd also understand that being a person who feels sort of like a girl and sort of like a guy who loves monster trucks is the same question of identity.

Transness is not about gender stereotypes. Neither is being genderqueer.

[(Anonymous)]

Um...I DO get trans-ness. I brought it up, specifically to illustrate the difference between being trans and being a girl who likes XYZ. I didn't expand on it, because it wasn't relevant to to the topic at hand.

The secret isn't about being born in the wrong body, it's about being genderqueer, which I've pretty consistently said I don't understand. So instead of just telling me what it's NOT about, how about explaining what it IS about. Unless you're going to dust off the old chestnut about it not being your job to educate people -- in which case, there's no point in carrying on a conversation with you.

[(Anonymous)]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer

What is it specifically that you don't understand? It's hard to know what to tell you when all you're repeating is that you don't understand, and that it's different from being trans when in principle, it isn't. That's why GQ falls under the T umbrella.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, per your link:

All that bulleted copy? Don't get it. I don't understand this idea of being both, neither, in between or creating a third gender just for you.

About the only instances of genderqueer in that whole entry that makes *sense* to me, are being trans but not necessarily feeling like you need to transition and the paragraph that amounts to bucking the norm when it comes to traditional gender stereotypes (though, I'm still not sure why we need a word for that second one ... all it seems to do is REINFORCE the wrong notion that that there's really only one way to be a boy or a girl).

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

Both being trans and being genderqueer is more complicated than "being born in the wrong body." Amount of physical gender dysphoria can vary from person to person, and while in my experience genderqueer people are less likely to experience it to an extent where they feel the need or desire to transition, some do and some do undergo physical transition. I, personally, am seriously considering getting top surgery in the future.

[bravenewdust.livejournal.com]

So is my best friend! He's poor, though, so if you could recommend any good docs or places to look, that would be fantastic. He'll be so much happier when the boobs are gone (he's genderqueer).

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

I'll be honest: I'm a little confused that you say you can understand binary trans-ness, yet, based on what you're saying here, your difficulty understanding genderqueerness seems to stem from a difficulty understanding how people can relate to gender outside of physical sex and gender roles. In that regard, being trans and being genderqueer aren't all that different. You say you identify as female because of the body you were born with, but the existence of trans people shows that gender identity doesn't always correspond with the body you're born with. It's just that most people born with "female" bodies do identify as female, and vice versa.

Like binary-identified trans people, many genderqueer people don't identify as the gender they were assigned at birth, and many experience some degree of psychological, social, and physical dysphoria. Some choose to transition. The main difference is that genderqueer encompasses a wider range of non-binary identities.

It's hard for me to explain beyond that, because if it's possible for someone born with a "female" body to have a firm male identity, I don't see why it's so much stranger for someone to have an identity that's neither male nor female.

[(Anonymous)]

thanks for giving me this case of nausea, i'll cherish it always
you don't get "trans-ness"
you equate sex with gender
and i highly doubt you actually see trans person as their identified gender
until transition
here's a hint both those traits are really fucking unbecoming
and just
hurtful to a lot of people, including me
and yes despite the monster trucks, guess what
you're a girl
why?
you identify as such
it's in some way important to you
just like genderqueer people and their experienced genders
it has no bearing on whether you've got a fucking vagina, ovaries, tits, et al.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

then why bother to identify as male or female in the first place?

Out of convenience? This sounds like horribly silly reason, but...I'm just sticking with my birth sex and people assume my gender is the same. But I have no particular connection to my gender/sex and I see it as having up and down sides which is pretty much how I'd feel had I been born the other). I have learned through living that some people place much more emphasis on gender while to me it's just as annoying thing that gets in the way. If that makes sense at all.

So, long story short, I think that the way people perceive gender, even their own, differs.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

Much love for you and this comment, anon. I feel exactly the same, on all counts.

Re: DA

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

That is how I feel as well.

[(Anonymous)]

I think anon's point was that even if you don't pick a gender, everyone else insists on picking one for you out of the two and only two available choices and if neither of them fit you are forever uncomfortable

I'm curious though you never answered anon's question about masculine and feminine, what do those words mean to you if masculinity and femininity can be exactly the same and there's no one way to define it

[(Anonymous)]

I couldn't find the words for it before, but I think masculinity and femininity are an established shorthand for society's traditions and stereotypes about the sexes. But also don't think anyone necessarily has to be bound by those traditions and stereotypes. Bucking the norm might not always be easy and it might not always be comfortable, but it makes more sense to me than trying to say "I'm neither!" (which also seems like it would be neither easy nor comfortable as far as dealing with haters goes).

I replied to anon just above your comment in a way that might explain it better or differently or something.

[(Anonymous)]

I think masculinity and femininity are an established shorthand for society's traditions and stereotypes about the sexes. But also don't think anyone necessarily has to be bound by those traditions and stereotypes.

If masculinity and femininity don't have to bind anyone, why can't someone identify as someone in the middle of the spectrum? Neither totally male nor totally female.

You are the one that seems to be insisting that people pick one and stick to it, here. 'You don't have to be bound by gender, so bind yourself to the gender assigned to you at birth!' Do you really not see the contradiction there.

[(Anonymous)]

You are the one that seems to be insisting that people pick one and stick to it, here.
No, I'm saying people are BORN with a gender (not that they have to pick one). Society has tried to define it with traditions and stereotypes, but people do not have to be beholden to those traditions and stereotypes to still be their gender. Because traditions and stereotypes are not the end-all, be-all of gender.

[(Anonymous)]

People are born with a sex. Gender isn't determined until later. A male baby raised completely female will likely have a female gender, even if the baby wasn't born the female sex.

Sex is not the end-all, be-all of gender.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually that is not true and that train of thought has actually led to a bunch of kids being screwed up:
See the most famous example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

So I'd argue that you ARE born with a gender, it's just not necessarily the same as our sex.

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

I think it is true that even if you don't pick a gender, everyone else insists on picking one for you out of the two available choices. However, I do not think having neither fit necessarily means you are forever uncomfortable. It just means you are forever getting gendered as male or female by other people.