fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1669 ]

[ SECRET POST #1669 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1669 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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03.

[Spiderman/Hellblazer]

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[The Coldfire Trilogy]

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06.

[Death Note]

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07.

[Law & Order: SVU]

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08. http://i.imgur.com/DjgOe.gif
[linked for flashing .gif (OP's warning)]

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09. http://i51.tinypic.com/28hloxg.jpg
[linked for gag-porny; Menage a 3]

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10. http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9436/14994542.png
[linked for nudity; the Meek]

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11.

[500 days of summer]

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12.

[Legends of the Hidden Temple]

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13.

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14.

[Cardcaptor Sakura]

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18.

[Sailor Moon]

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23.

(Megaman Legends 3)

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24.

(Winners & losers)

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25.

[Doctor Who]

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26.

[Stan Lee]

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27.

[Captain America]

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28.

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29.

[Chachamaru, GACKTJob]

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30.

[Alice's adventures in Wonderland and through the looking glass]

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31.

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32.

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33.

[Downton Abbey]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

34. [SPOILERS for the Dreamer]

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35. [SPOILERS for The Powerpuff Girls Movie]

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36. [SPOILERS for Tiger & Bunny]

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37. [SPOILERS for HP]

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38. [SPOILERS for HP]

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39. [SPOILERS for HP]

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40. [SPOILERS for Tales of Symphonia ]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

41. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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42. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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43. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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44. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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45. [TRIGGER WARNING for suicide]

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46. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual harrassment]

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47. [TRIGGER WARNING for stalking]

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48. [TRIGGER WARNING for suicide]

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49. [TRIGGER WARNING for suicide]

[Rudyard Kipling/Jungle Book]

Notes:

Anon meme tomorrow at noon Eastern.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #238.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ], [ 1 - ships it ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I agree. I really, really dislike the term "non-con" entirely, because seriously, it's just a prettier word for "rape". In my mind, there is absolutely no difference between a non-consenting adult, and rape. I mean, literally the definition of rape involves the use of the term "without consent", so I get really squicked out when I see people using the term "non-con".

The way I look at it, "rape" is forced intercourse without consent. "Noncon" is any sexual act performed without consent: rape, molestation, inappropriate touching... Rape is always Noncon, Noncon is not always Rape. Just a more specific term for a specific part of a broader category.

That's how I try to use it. For example I wrote a fic where a guy was forcibly kissed by someone he hated, so I labeled it "noncon" but if I had labeled it rape people would have expected something entirely different.

That's how I see it as well. Non-con isn't really prettier or a euphemism. It's just a broader category. And the reason it's a warning is very clear.

Plus, I've known some authors who used it as a way to distinguish between rape fantasy and serious rape. Though, I haven't seen consent as to which you use for which. :/

I disagree, at least to a point. Part of the problem with rape culture in our society is the idea that rape has to be forced intercourse, usually violent, and with the victim expressly saying "no." I wouldn't say that, for example, inappropriate touching constitues rape (thought it is sexual assault) but molestation is, and I feel like using terms like "noncon" reinforce the idea that rape has to fit some narrow definition.

ayrt

That's all well and good, but the context of the secret and discussion is fan fiction, not society. Warnings in fanfic are simple, easily identifiable catch phrases that people can look for in order to avoid (or find and read) whatever topic that's relevant to them. Using them in the same context out in the real world will get you, at best, strange looks.

The word "non-con" is not prettier than the word "rape". And since they mean the same, what is the problem with using one or the other?

Because while "non-con" may mean "rape" by denotation, it doesn't by connotation. "Non-con" is a neologism that deliberately erases all the baggage carried by "rape". It's newspeak.

I'll be frank: my question was only for the person I was responding to. I wanted them to explain their position.

Personally, I agree that there's a difference in connotation between "noncon" and "rape". However, I happen to think that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, because too many people are misinformed about rape. Too many people have this idea that rape is only when a woman is jumped upon by some strange man, who then forcibly has vaginal intercourse with her. Anything else is not rape in too many people's mind. By putting the emphasis on the concept of consent, terms such as "dubcon" and "noncon", in my mind, serve to introduce these people to the true meaning of rape, and thus to its many real faces. Non-consensual oral sex between spouses? Rape. Non-consensual handjobs between people of whatever sex and gender? Rape. Elimination of consent through the use of drugs? Noncon, thus rape. Pretending to be someone else in order to trick someone into sleeping with you? Noncon, thus rape. And so on. So yeah, by teaching people that "non-con equals rape", I think that the use of "non-con" can actually enhance people's understanding of rape.

See, that would be a valid idea if fandom actually labeled such diverse situations to which the label "rape" ought to apply as noncon. But the vast majority of fandom tends to fall back on the "dubcon" label in pretty much any situation that doesn't fall under the pre-conceived notion of rape you describe. And that fact, and really the fact that the "dubcon" label exists at all (consent is either there or it's not, okay?), means that I don't really buy that argument.

I actually like the concept of dubcon, because I find it realistic. In other words, I disagree that "consent is either there or it's not". Sometimes consent is given out of fear, or out of social expectations, or under pressure, or even because it doesn't occur to the person that they have a right to refuse it, and so on. Technically, this means these situations are not noncon, but they are not fully consensual either, hence why I like "dubcon": because it highlights the fact that sometimes people don't truly consent, that there is such a thing as a consent given half-heartedly or for all the wrong reasons.

As for whether dubcon is rape: that depends on whether the other person knows the consent is dubious or not. If the partner has no reason to suspect that the other person is not truly consenting, then how can we accuse them of rape? On the other hand, if the partner is the one forcing the dubious consent out of the person, then clearly it is rape even if the person doesn't say "no" or "stop".

So yes, I like "dubcon" just as much as "noncon". I find them really useful terms, when used correctly.

Then again, maybe I should add the precision that I don't see a need to choose between "dubcon/noncon" and "rape". I recently listed all three terms in my warnings for one of my fics.

But those situations are noncon. If a person is forced to give consent, whether out of fear, blackmail, or pressure, that is still rape. It is just a different kind of rape. And it is still noncon because the consent given isn't actually consent. For consent to be consent, it has to be given freely.

I disagree. If consent is given, even under pressure or for the wrong reasons, then it is given. Same with consent being assumed (between habitual partners, for example). Such situations are not non-con to me, because non-con is when consent is flat out denied. That's why I like the term dub-con, because it perfectly reflects the fact that consent can be given, or at least not refused, and yet not be true consent.

I agree that many of these situations are definitely rape, though.

there is absolutely no difference between a non-consenting adult, and rape.

yes, exactly. so why shouldn't the two be used interchangeably? i mean i can understand preferring one term over the other, but i don't know why you would be squicked. how is "non-con" prettier than "rape" anyway? THEY MEAN THE SAME DAMN THING idgi

Actually for fic purposes there is a huge difference between the different sorts of rape fic. There is fantasy rape which is more about getting the reader with kink for it off, and then there's the gritty, rapefic which is for horror. And actually though the audiences overlap often, they aren't completely interchangable.

But I think the person who wrote this secret just doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that there are people out there who enjoy lighter, less angsty rape fics that aren't all about how bad rape is, and would love to kinkshame those who prefer that sort of fic.

They mean the same thing but have slightly different connotations. It's like the difference between "kill" and "murder". The latter is slightly uglier than the former, and denotes a deliberate act of malicious intent.

Er...yes, noncon means rape. There's not supposed to be a difference. "Noncon" exists as slang only to oppose "dubcon" (those fics which might offend some readers because they push boundaries, but are ultimately consensual). Examples of "dubcon" might be a queen who agrees to have sex with a creeper as part of a pact to save her people - it's obvious she's not really into the idea and would otherwise not have offered, but does ultimately consent because she considers it something she can do to change the situation.

what on earth makes non-con prettier than rape? what does that even mean?

Why? You said yourself, it's in the defintion. Without consent=non-con=rape? Why would what it is labelled change that?

Some people find the term "rape" itself triggery.

"Some people find the term "rape" itself triggery."

You just answered your own question. If the label makes no difference, then why would those sensitive to triggers find the term "non-con" less offensive? Hm...

It's a different word from the "legal one" because it's not a word, it's actually an abbreviation. IDK, if you have a better one, why don't you throw that one out?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1669 ]

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