fandomsecrets | (no subject)

I'm about as un-wanky as a person can get when it comes to fandom stuff. Love what you love, hate what you hate, ship what you ship... I don't care. I get that it's just entertainment. It's not real life. It doesn't matter.

Usually.

But there are some ships and characters that disgust me so much that I can't help but honestly think that the people who like them have something actually legitimately wrong with them. Like, to the extent that seeing the fangirling makes me honestly want to suggest they go get therapy. And some of things I loathe are very popular, so obviously there aren't that many crazy people wandering around (make your jokes about fandom, but there really aren't) which means there must be something good somewhere in there that I'm not seeing. I just don't get it, though, so seeing this stuff all over the fandom just makes me angry and, depending on the topic, a little bit nauseous because it's awful and why the fuck don't you understand how wrong you are?

"You guys are having fun wrong." I'm completely ridiculous.

Even if I'm right and the things I hate really are as awful as I think they are, enjoying them isn't hurting anybody so it's none of my business. Dwelling on things I hate is completely stupid. I still feel the urge to say vile things and start fandom wars and judge the hell out of otherwise perfectly nice people but I can't, even anonymously, because I'd feel too guilty. I think getting it off my chest could help me let go and get over the bad feelings, but it would only create more bad feelings because it would start arguments and hurt other people who aren't doing anything wrong by enjoying fandom.

TL;DR - Fandom!Secrets doesn't work for me. But I really wish it did.

I feel this way about Kurt/Karofsky.

Well, not about shipping it and reading fic and drawing fanart or whatever. But the people who actually want this to happen on the show? What is wrong with you? Get help.

This, exactly this!

I get people wanting Karofsky redeemed on the show, that's one thing. But wanting him to be in a relationship with Kurt?! No, just no. Shipping in fandom is one thing, but actively wanting/campaigning for it to happen in canon just makes no sense to me and skeeves me out. Karofsky bullied Kurt, threatened violence and even death, and even if it wasn't explicitly stated in the script beyond that first kiss, the actor gave off some seriously disturbing sexual vibes towards Kurt. Do people honestly think the Glee writers could tackle all that history, give Karofsky a satisfying redemption arc and have Kurt not only forgive him but actually fall in love with Karofsky (because these people always seem to want a romantic relationship, not anything disfunctional) inside of one season?!

I admit, though, I'm baffled by the way some people ship Karofsky/Kurt in fandom (rather than wanting it canon) too. Sure, maybe there are situations where enough time has passed and Karofsky has changed enough that he and Kurt could be together - hits a few squicks for me, but I can see why it would appeal to others. But the number of people who write fluffy romance for them, where everything is puppies and rainbows, while they're still in school or even while Karofsky is still bullying Kurt blows my mind. Dirty messsed-up issue-filled lust is one thing, but "I love you forever and ever, my big snuggly bear" is quite another. I've had discussions with people who will not accept that That Kiss was not consensual and was a form of sexual assault. Sure, a fan might find it sexy to watch, but when they try to paint it as romantic while being unable to acknowledge that it was actually a violent act and was against Kurt's will, it freaks me out.

Buffy/Spike anon from down below, and everything you said - same reason I cannot stand that pairing, right down to the people who don't understand that the attempted rape was not an act of love, it was fucking attempted rape.

And I've seen people understand that That Kiss was not consensual, while not understanding the implications of that because "whatevs, it's just a kiss, it's not like he raped him or something"

I think it's really a mark of US culture that people seem so drawn to these pairings, while not understanding the inherent squickiness of them, and that they don't see the major issues of consent in them. Consent is just rarely ever talked about in US media, even in media that deals with rape and sexual assault (LMN I am looking at you). So many people have no idea what consenting means.

Sorry, if this comes out incoherent, sometimes I just lose myself in my own thoughts

Anon you replied to

So very much agree with everything you said. While I can see people shipping Buffy/Spike as something twisted and dysfunctional, particularly when Buffy is messed up and punishing herself, I can't see it being portrayed as healthy and fluffy and romantic. I'd think it would be more interesting to explore the characters as troubled by their feelings and caught up in a relationship they know is hurting them and, you know, being in character. Hatesex pairings exist for a reason, why do people feel like they have to take the hate out of the equation when it's a huge part of the relationship.

I've seen the "it was only a kiss" argument before and it turns my stomach. I remember being a teenager and thinking when a guy grabbed my arse in the pub it was some form of compliment, because I was young and stupid and because that was how the world had been presented to me - if you're attractive, men can't keep their hands to themselves. I've grown older, wiser, learnt to respect myself and understand that nobody should be allowed to touch me without my permission, but that message I was spoonfed is still on our tv screens. The girls who sleep around and encourage people to view them as sex objects are the popular ones on shows like Glee. I know Glee is supposed to be a parody/satire, but somewhere halfway through the first season it lost that edge that made that apparent, making those messages seem more sincere, particularly to younger viewers.

I don't know what LMN is, sorry, but I was really freaked out when I read the Sookie Stackhouse books. She's sexually assaulted in every book (I did stop reading after the fifth, so don't know if the trend continued), and it's always presented as 'she's just that beautiful that men are driven into a sexual frenzy and can't be held accountable', whether it's a villain or somebody she's supposed to trust. It's not even acknowledged until something like the fourth book, when Sookie refers to her ex-boyfriend as having raped her, and even then there's something off about the way it's worded. Almost like the author got enough flack that she had to acknowledge it as rape but didn't really want to.

Yeaaahh....I agree that the Sookie Stackhouse books are fucked up. I mean, I still like them, but I can definitely acknowledge that they have a lot of problems and are kind of trashy.

Like, I remember when in an early book Bill raped Sookie in the trunk of a car (or something like that) and she was basically like "Eh, okay". I think she even outright called it as rape (which seems to be something most people in romance novels gloss over)

LMN - Lifetime Movie Network. Oh, their movies are so horrible, just thinking about them makes me sick.

I was trying to pinpoint exactly why I stopped reading the Sookie novels even though I enjoyed them, and that is exactly it. I liked that Sookie wasn't ashamed about wanting to feel beautiful and of thinking of herself as such, but the way the author implied that being beautiful means you have to tolerate and accept men mistreating you just made my skin itch. I think with the rape the author was trying to make it read as if Sookie didn't really understand what it was until a long while afterwards, but she failed at doing so.

I'm curious - which pairings you find so disgusting?

I get this way about RPS. I just can't understand it. It makes me really angry when people insist that there is something going on between two persons who are in a relationship with/married to other people (sometimes they even have kids!). It makes me irrationally angry.
Incest is another "what's wrong with you?" -thing for me.

I can't say. That was the point. Wish I could but I'm just too repressed, I guess. I don't like the idea of upsetting people even when they don't know it's me.

I feel this way about Buffy/Spike because I just cannot get past the fact that he tried to rape her. And I've had bad experiences with people who claim that the attempted rape was some epic portrayal of true love. Fuck that shit.

Buffy/Spike is seriously the most awful (shipping-related) thing ever. The second Buffy broke down crying in Tara's lap begging not to be forgiven because she felt so disgusting, that ship should have been over. Instead, 90% of fandom is people romanticizing that fucked-up mess.

Oh fuck, I have not seen the last couple of seasons of btvs in so long, I totally forgot about that. THIS THIS THIS EXACTLY.

I get physically ill when I see people idealizing that relationship - or the people who say that Buffy and Spike deserve each other.

This is totally me too. I think these feelings are normal for everybody, it's just that some people act on them and cause wank and hurt feelings, and others keep that shit inside like mature people.
I hate some characters. I hate some pairings, and some kinks. I hate some shows, and even some entire fic genres. And I may even secretly judge the people who like them. But bashing those things typically accomplishes nothing but pissing off the people who like them and getting a few people who hate them to say +1.

This is how I feel about Vriska/Tavros and Eridan/Feferi in the Homestuck fandom, at least whenever it's written as happy and functional. I'm sure most of the shippers are very nice people but I can't help but wonder if they've even read the comic.