fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1691 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1691 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 314 secrets from Secret Submission Post #242.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I ....really don't think it was a prank. There isn't anything there to indicate it wasn't serious.

John turning out to be actually not straight, because right now he's 13 and hasn't thought about dating, that makes sense. All those other excuses shippers come up with, like 'he was joking', and 'he's in the closet and was totally overreacting to cover it up gais!', those don't make sense.

There was nothing in that scene to indicate that there was more to it than what was going on at face value. Can we as a fandom stop second guessing that scene, please.

I don't know, why is it so bad that people keep second guessing it? Why, instead, do people keep on insisting on taking it as something that is set in stone forever and place so much weight on the scene?

I like re-evaluating it because I think the subject is interesting, and would be a lot more fun if there was something more to it rather than just a declaration of heterosexuality. Though I did think poor Karkat's reaction was pretty cute, and I felt bad for him.

And while I would like if John/Karkat became canon, it's really no skin off my back if it never does. I'm not 'coming up with excuses', so much as coming up with alternatives that I disagree with you about that I would find plausible because I think it's fun and like to speculate. Gods forbid!

And it is not like I am using this speculation to invalidate canon, or use it as fodder against John/Vriska (which I find fucking adorable, btw)... so, what is the problem with us shippers having our fun?

Are you so ignorant that you can't understand why people might be upset at a person's self-identified sexuality ignored and replaced with someone else's perception of what their sexuality ought to be? Do you really not understand how many people in this fandom and elsewhere in this fandom have been victimized by those sorts of attitudes IRL?

Being queer and and being open about it, yes I damned well do know what it's like.

However, my attitude isn't that I think John ought to be queer, so much as that there is room for ambiguity, and I think it would much more interesting if it turns out that he wasn't. It would be much more "comfortable" to me, but I won't love the character or the story any less if he does turn out to be straight.

Until then, he is up for literary analysis, speculation, and so on and so forth. Until then, I'm not going to chalk up it to shippery escapism like I end up having to do with 90% of my other fandoms.

Are you seriously comparing the discussion and analysis of a potentially straight character's sexuality to the oppression of gender and sexuality minorities?

Because if you are, screw you. And if you're another one of those whiny little prats whose heart bleeds for the straight, white, cis guys who keep bleating about how people call them gay and they aren't, and it's just like telling a gay person they're really straight! Screw you even more.

If I go by canon, I find it hard to assume John is anything. Romance and dating seem to be tertiary concerns, and he mostly just seems to care about all of his friends a lot platonically, no matter what gender they are.

I guess I'm sick of people second guessing it because as far as I can see there was no indication that there was anything more to John's statement, there wasn't really any kind of ambiguity there, and whenever I hear other interpretations it always comes off as a shipper grasping at strings, mostly because they just make no sense. One I've heard a lot was that John's statement to Karkat was a clear overreaction, and he overreacted because he is gay and wants to hide it. Because "Um, I'm sorry but I am not a homosexual." is a clear overreaction?...Somehow?

It's extra annoying because John is a 13 year old who's admitted to not thinking about dating and romance before, so there's no reason to think he might not turn out to be gay later in life. I don't ship John with anyone and even I'd argue that he said he was straight because he'd never actually thought about it and just assumed he was.

I get where you're coming from, and I apologize for my defensive overreaction. That sort of stuff is annoying and ridiculous to me, too.

I guess on the flipside of things, I am just sick of the veritable essay-rants some people have been writing on why it is never possible evar and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid.

It makes me feel like I got timewarped back to 10 years ago where every other fan had a personal geocities/angelfire/tripod website with PROOF and COUNTERARGUMENTS about their ships or something.

I ....really don't think it was a prank. There isn't anything there to indicate it wasn't serious.

I can agree with this to a point, at least from a Watsonian perspective. (Although the way John phrased it is pretty amusing -- it sounds like something a politician four times his age would say!)

But after the flash beforehand and Karkat's introductory speech? It was the most beautifully Doylist punchline Hussie could have delivered, and that is what makes people hesitate to take John's statement as incontrovertible.

I'm not sure what most of that means, and can't say you're not just fucking with me, but sure. I agree that Hussie intended the statement as a punchline, doesn't mean it was a punchline to John.

There hadn't been any indications for most of the year, but now that Karkat's brought it up moments before John's going to have that conversation Andrew's raised the possibility that he's just continuing the trick he's played in every other conversation they've had going backwards through time where he uses something Karkat said in his last conversation to fuck with him.

Or that it's not a prank, John's just taking their last conversation at face value and going "Okay! Karkat asked me to let him down gently because he's realized he doesn't really like me that way, and he said something about me doing it by saying I'm 'not a homosexual', let's do this!"

Right up until it was brought up again I was perfectly willing to think that was what he believes of himself now, regardless of whether he'll realize it's not true or not later (I personally go for straight-leaning-bi!John), but now that it has it raises other possibilities. Of course, Andrew being Andrew I wouldn't be surprised it we never get the real story.

Truth. And even if it is a prank, it might just be meant to be a prank more than a statement of personal identity anyway or any combination of these things.

Dammit Hussie.

[ SECRET POST #1691 ]

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