[ SECRET POST #1726 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1726 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 240 secrets from Secret Submission Post #247.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

dear internet:

the vast majority of people in this world are not educated/enlightened about transgender issues.

many of them, without malice or prejudice, legitimately find it a little confusing and it might make them vaguely uncomfortable. most people feel this way about things they don't understand. it's perfectly normal.

flipping out over the slightest perceived affront to transgendered identity is not only going to discourage well-meaning but naive people from learning more about the issue, it's going to basically discourage any actual change being made. insulting them is punishment - now they're just too nervous to speak up or have any feelings at all about transgenderism. congratulations. calmly explaining what the issue is and how it might offend you is a great way to encourage people to educate themselves and, you know, possibly become advocates or voices for tolerance.

tl;dr sometimes I wish there was a way to broadcast Valium through the entire internet.

[(Anonymous)]

because how dare people ever get emotional about bigotry. especially if it personally impacts them, they should remain calm at ALL times. otherwise they're a RUINER OF CAUSES.

[spam-27.livejournal.com]

Just not knowing something is not bigotry. Believing it and living by it is.

[(Anonymous)]

no, from that individual, it's not bigotry on an intentional level -- but a lot of times, it's certainly influenced by and perpetuates bigotry.

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

you don't think lack of intent or knowledge can mitigate an offensive remark?

[(Anonymous)]

can, perhaps; it certainly doesn't always, and it doesn't magically make something not offensive at all.

and if someone, say, has been having a bad day where they've been hearing all kinds of intentionally offensive comments about who they are, i think it's inconsiderate to them to expect them to be able to always recognize when it's only a result of ignorance and not intentional malice, and always go "oh, this person doesn't mean it, let me just set aside my feelings and hold their hand and educate them."

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

there's a lot of gray area between "set aside my feelings and hold their hand and educate them" and "unload a ton of capslock and sarcasm to make myself feel better".

I'm saying that if you're going to respond ... and, since this is the internet and we're all communicating in text, you have plenty of time to step away from the triggery stuff and do something soothing if you've been having a bad day instead of hitting 'post comment', which I would honestly recommend because, like the zen koan says, you have no idea what kind of day the other person's been having and if it's okay for you to use that excuse, it's just as valid for them ... snark isn't going to do anything for anyone.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but I think it's fairly obvious that OP wasn't intentionally trying to be offensive by that one little line in their secret. I could understand flipping out at them if they had been overtly ignorant or hostile, but this kind of response doesn't really seem proportionate and will only alienate people and make them too afraid to say anything about trans folks for fear of causing great offense and getting attacked. It's probably a lot more effective to gently correct someone and explain why they could have used a different choice of words in cases like this.

signed,

A trans anon who wishes there could be an environment in which people could openly talk about trans related issues without being dogpiled for every misstep

[(Anonymous)]

if this thread is "flipping out" and "attacking" i'd hate to see what people call it when there are ACTUAL strong reactions. the most i've seen directed at the op is comments along the lines of "why does it matter if you're straight, you know he's a guy, right?"

[(Anonymous)]

If you don't think this comment section has been hostile, you really need to look up the meaning of hostility in the Dictionary.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought the comments to the OP were perfectly fine. The raging awful those were met with did unsurprisingly raise some hackles, but those people were intent on being offensive, not "misunderstanding" or just "unenlightened."

Thanks for your "watch your tone" argument though. That hasn't been used before.

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

maybe my problem is that I think it's ridiculous to meet all mistakes with immediate and escalating hostility. I guess that's called a tone argument now.

[(Anonymous)]

you think this is hostility? really? wow. you must be new. welcome to the internet. here's some reading.

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

and you think this secret is bigotry? wow. you must be new. welcome to the internet. here's a link.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/08/04/d-c-anti-transgender-crimes-worry-activists/ (http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/08/04/d-c-anti-transgender-crimes-worry-activists/)

does it make you feel smug to link to watered-down sociological terms on a wiki? I know what it is. I also think it's become an excuse for anyone on the losing side of whatever privilege is in question to be as condescending as possible at all times, regardless of provocation.

"If someone treads on your toes, kick them in the balls. You don't need to ask them to get off."

[(Anonymous)]

Did I say the secret was bigoted? I believe, in fact, I said the comments in response to people correcting OP going on in the thread were the problem. And I threw "tone argument" into google and picked the first semi-relevant link, because it looked like it was too hard for you to do.

I AM a trans person, moron. I am very well aware of the extremely real dangers I face on a day-to-day basis. Thanks though!

Does it make you feel like a big devil's advocate-playing hero to come in here and act like being sweet to people who try to invalidate my existence will get anything solved for me and other trans people, ever?

Consider this me kicking you in the internet balls, because I am done with your pointless derailment.

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

and here you've effectively proved how tone does affect discussions. you came in here all sarcastic with the capslock and now you're burnt out.

the whole mess of responses to this secret is a great example of tone shutting everything down. people talk about shit, are met with sarcasm, and effrontery and ~ironic tildes~ ensue.

for all these sociological debate buzzwords getting thrown around, I'm barely seeing any discussion, just a lot of snark. you're right; it is pointless.

[zyxwvutsrq321.livejournal.com]

dear anon,

i like you a lot

and you made my heart go pitter-patter

swoon <3

A love-letter limerick.

[marshwiggledyke.livejournal.com]

apologists try to appease
those with offensive POVs.
yet one nonny brawls,
& kicks internet balls!
anon won't you marry me please?

- a fellow trans person. <3

[(Anonymous)]

lol oh man i forgot it's only REALLY bigotry if it's violent. just like it's only racism if they're wearing a white robe, right

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

sorry, I forgot, you're the only one who's allowed to be condescending here.

even if there are bigoted remarks in this thread that are indicative of negative societal attitudes as a whole, how does throwing a sarcastic tantrum in response do anything besides help you feel self-righteous? is that empowering for you?

let's pretend I'm triggered by people mocking and insulting me on the internet. does your privilege as the aggressor cancel mine out? or do we just sit here on LJ and act like jerks all night?

[(Anonymous)]

i love how the tone argument is a get-away-free card for being an asshole

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

But there's GOOGLE! It's the ultimate TEACHER! Nobody who's offended should have to stoop to explaining ANYTHING! OH MAW GAWD you meanie!!