[ SECRET POST #1755 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1755 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 206 secrets from Secret Submission Post #251.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

The reason why people writing only m/m exclusively bothers me is that it's one of the way that fandom erases women from canon.

[(Anonymous)]

Sounds fucking selfish. People can write what they want, I'm sure there's other people writing women just to satisfy your needs.

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

lol when did I say I expected people to write women just to satisfy my needs? I said it bothers me because the way women are overlooked and the emphasis in fandom on men does bother me.

[(Anonymous)]

Well if you want more emphasis on women, you would want more people writing about women so they're not shoved down to the side.

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

Just because I want something doesn't mean I'm going to start demanding that people "satisfy my needs." Expressing my opinion does =/= demanding you stop writing what you enjoy.

[(Anonymous)]

This, exactly! People should be able to write what they want. That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed and frustrated.

[(Anonymous)]

In all serious, people always say m/m erases women from canon but I rarely see this actually happening. Pairing fics tend to be oneshots, porn or otherwise, and usually heavily on the two characters regards of being het/slash/femslash.

If the fandom have regular, prominent female characters, you will never very rarely see actual erasure (meaning that they were erased because the author didn't like females) but if the fandom as occasionally but reoccurring female character (like ones who don't appear all that much), there's no real obligation to include them like the male version of that character. The problem is that series like those never had much of a female presence (which in turn the fans are likely to be slash oriented in terms of shipping).

I think we call erasure too lightly if said canon doesn't have a very strong female presence in the first place. But ones with significant female canonical presence (the female characters are consistently present and their own characters) are far less likely to erase.

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

Erasure might be a too strong word for it but fandom definitely focuses on men and their stories over women. I'm not saying that slash is the only way that fandom does it or that all slash does this (in my original comment it was specifically about the slashing of m/m exclusively).

And yeah, part of it is that the show/book/etc. in the first place will have male man character/cast made up of mostly men but even in that case you'll see fans taking up minor male characters and rounding them out rather than a minor female character. Canons with significant female characters do tend to be much better about including women in fanworks but idk it seems to be a bit of a cycle? Like there's a small female presence in show -> the fandom focuses on the male characters -> people assume that fans don't want to see/enjoy female characters.

[(Anonymous)]

But even fandoms with equal or more important female characters than males still write more men than women.

[(Anonymous)]

Men in general or m/m?

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

I don't really think this is true. I think it's far more likely that straight women (who are probably the majority of fandom people) get off on reading fiction with maximum dickage because that's what turns them on.

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah. But fandom has much more of a focus on male characters rather than female characters and writing exclusively about male characters increases that.

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

Okay. But I don't think saying that people who get off on gay porn have to stop writing/reading what they like is the solution to that problem.

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

Wow, I'm amazed that "I'm bothered by the way people exclusively writing m/m adds to the way fandom overlooks women" apparently translates to "I think any person who writes m/m should stop writing what they enjoy." At no point did I tell you to stop, so no need to be so defensive.

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

Well, you aren't telling "me" to stop, since I don't write porn and most of the pairings I've written so far (which is only a few since I'm relatively new to this) are m/f. I'm sorry if I came across as defensive; I wasn't feeling defensive. What I am saying is that there are people who do write exclusively m/m because that's all they feel like writing, and I'm trying to figure out if you want those people to stop writing what they like and start writing what you want them to write for the sake of balance.

It seems to me that those who are really interested in balance would do better to contribute to more female-oriented fics themselves rather than complain that other people aren't doing it the way that they want.

And I'm not trying to be offensive, just trying to figure out where exactly you're coming from. It kind of sounds to me like you want m/m porn writers to start writing other things too because otherwise it isn't fair. But I'm not sure.

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

No, I do not want people to stop writing what they enjoy. I have not said that I do not want that. My opinion was simply a statement of opinion. If I did want something from exclusive m/m writers it would be idk, nothing really. I honestly do not want anything from them. I don't understand why this is such a foreign concept.

It'd be nice if there was more female-orientated fics but that is not the sole fault of m/m slash, it contributes /but so a lot of other factors/. Which is why I said one of the ways. I was commenting on a trend in overall fandom I find sad that has relevance to the particular topic being discussed. I'm not expecting people to change what they're writing.

Also was the passive-aggressive insinuation that all I'm doing is complaining and not contributing female-orientated fanfic (seriously where did you pull that from?) really necessary?

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

Okay. Then I guess I don't really understand the point of your original comment, unless it was just to complain about the world not being the way you want it to be. (This is not meant as an insult; I do this myself sometimes.)

I wasn't trying to be passive-aggressive, so I'm sorry if I can across that way. I was just trying to illustrate that I felt you were doing a lot of finger-pointing.

[(Anonymous)]

what is the point of this comm lol, half the secrets are complaints about something the person usually acknowledges can't be changed, they just wanted to toss their opinion out there.

disagreeing with their statement =/= it had no point in being said, sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

So people should write about something that doesn't interest them because of... what? So they can look at the SJWs approved list of Things You Should Include In Fics Or You're A Racist/Bad Feminist/Swimming In Misogyny/[Insert Your Choice Here] and say "well, at least they can't claim I'm a racist/bad feminist/etc. because I wrote this fic (even though I didn't want to because really, I just want my m/m porn)"?

C/P

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

No, I do not want people to stop writing what they enjoy. I have not said that I do not want that. My opinion was simply a statement of opinion. If I did want something from exclusive m/m writers it would be idk, nothing really. I honestly do not want anything from them. I don't understand why this is such a foreign concept.

It'd be nice if there was more female-orientated fics but that is not the sole fault of m/m slash, it contributes /but so a lot of other factors/. Which is why I said one of the ways. I was commenting on a trend in overall fandom I find sad that has relevance to the particular topic being discussed. I'm not expecting people to change what they're writing.

[(Anonymous)]

lol. As if one of the two partners in slash isn't always completely femified.