[ SECRET POST #1756 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1756 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 165 secrets from Secret Submission Post #251.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Addendum

[(Anonymous)]

Moreover, as for your last paragraph concerning whether or not the pedants would descend, that depends on where you post. I for one have never been in a community where people would descend on you for minor errors, and if they did, it's because they wanted to help, not because they're being dicks about it. In fact, that quote you offered? Doesn't sound particularly harsh to me. The real pedants I've seen would actually offer scathing criticism by actively attempting to make a writer feel like an idiot. The example you have features someone who is conscious of the fact that they don't know whether or not someone who's ESL would know what they know. The only faux pas I see is the vague patronization vibe it has. Yes, sometimes, these pedants are wrong. However, as annoying as they can be sometimes, as you've pointed out, the polite ones are merely amusing. Depending on the community, you probably won't see an abundance of the kind that actively tries to make you feel like an idiot just for speaking.

Again for emphasis: It depends on the community. My fandoms aren't everyone's, and I know that there are some that are full of crazy, elitist ass holes. But the point is, as I've said in that other comment, that one - regardless of skill level - should make an effort to understand the basics and communicate coherently with other members of a community and not worry so much about the off-chance that someone will come out and tell them on an ordinary comment that they got their tenses wrong because that kind of practice isn't prevalent in every single fandom.

Re: Addendum

[delwynmarch.livejournal.com]

Whether it happens in many fandoms or not is rather irrelevant. If OP is complaining about it, then it must happen in OP's fandom(s), which is all the justification necessary for the secret to be made.

Also, quite frankly, there are only so many times I can be told, "If your ESL, then you MUST have a beta. I can be you're beta if you want :) ", or watch Person A assume that Person B is ESL because of A's bad SPaG (even when it's very obvious that A is a native), before I start getting defensive any time someone tries to link bad English to being ESL. The assumption that ESLs always write in bad English, and that only ESLs write in bad English, is really grating.

Re: Addendum

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, it's not. It depends on whether or not the OP is actually exaggerating. For all we know, the OP could be stuck in a lousy fandom, sure, but the OP could also be complaining about five people out of hundreds of reviewers.

Genuine question here: do many people who are ESL automatically arrive to the conclusion that any advice concerning getting a beta is actually a thinly-veiled statement that native speakers think only ESLs write in bad English? Because I'd like to let you know, with all sincerity, that this isn't the case. If I offer to beta an ESL, it's because I know that it's difficult to learn multiple languages and would genuinely like to help. Native-speaking betas are a good tool to use for reasons that aren't "because ESLs don't write well." On the contrary, it's because some of them - and certainly not all of them, sure - have been trained to catch the tiny details.

So I agree with you in saying that ESL =/= bad English, but not everyone who offers to beta read for you are assuming you don't have a grasp of the English language. If we can read what you're saying, chances are we get that you get it. We're just trying to help.