fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1766 ]

[ SECRET POST #1766 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1766 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[was accidentally labeled a repeat before]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #252.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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13. http://i39.tinypic.com/aeuyz5.png

For some reason that picture of the two of them has always bugged me and now I think I know why: Rapunzel has her arms out like as if she was expecting a hug from the front, like most people do when they show affection towards the other.

But Gothel is hugging her from behind...where her hair is. It's practically like she's trying to hug her hair, the real focus of her affection, instead. :\

That's a good point. I'd never really noticed that particular nuance before, but it makes Gothel that much worse when you see it from that perspective.

I know. I wonder if Gothel ever had any real affection for Rapunzel at all, if absolutely everything was a lie. Her character is very intriguing; I don't blame people for wanting to find something sympathetic in Mother Gothel.

I love your icon!

Re: OT

kryptoncat.livejournal.com - 2011-11-04 01:54 (UTC) - Expand

All I know is that whenever Gothel shows affection for Rapunzel in the movie, it's ALWAYS accompanied with some hair patting/stroking. No affection is shown without involving the hair.

(no subject)

kryptoncat.livejournal.com - 2011-11-04 03:22 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

writerserenyty.livejournal.com - 2011-11-04 04:26 (UTC) - Expand

I know, right? She was a horrible, selfish, and abusive woman.

Liking the character is one thing, sympathizing with her is something else.

Not this shit again

Basic movie, basic (non)secret

You judge people for this? :( Do you also judge people for sympathizing with abusive characters in other media/fandoms? Seems kind of harsh.

I think it's the difference between sympathizing with her, and saying, "BUT SHE LOOOOVED RAPUNZEL AND WANTED HER TO BE SAFE" and excusing her behavior.

I agree, but the OP isn't clear. They're not the same thing. Sympathizing means feeling sorry for a character, excusing means denying that they have any bad traits or that they're not abusive or whatnot. Does the OP mean sympathizing or excusing??

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2011-11-04 01:08 (UTC) - Expand

Yeeeah I wouldn't call her sympathetic. I think she's a bit more nuanced than the typical Disney villain, since there's moments where it seems like she might have a bit of affection for Rapunzel, but the way she treats Rapunzel is seriously horrific. Actually, it might be even more horrific than the typical Disney villain BECAUSE of her brief moments where she seems like she did have a minor amount of maternal instincts for Rapunzel.

I like her as a character, though, since most versions of Rapunzel that I've seen either make the witch an obvious villain or far too sympathetic. Disney struck a nice balance for her, and really highlighted how abusive the situation is for Rapunzel.

I agree with this. She's certainly abusive, yet she's an interesting character to explore and think about. But I wouldn't call her "sympathetic."

I just recently saw this movie for the first time, and... wow. Gothel is such a textbook abusive mother that it's like the writers read a book on abusive mothers and pulled her personality traits from it. I can't see how anyone thinks that what she did was okay.

I'm not saying that everything about her was necessarily 100% evil and that there couldn't have possibly been a single good thing about her, but she is not the sympathetic character in that story.

ugh. what a boring secret. yes, we get it. gothel is a bad woman.

i don't think any sane person in the disney fandom disagrees with this.

See, that's what makes her SO interesting to me. There's hints that maybe she felt some maternal affection for Rapunzel, but overall she was still evil. That's why I love her character. Don't think she's a good person, but she's a great character.

I'd rather be raised in a tower away from the rest of the world by her than by Frollo, though. She could pretend to actually care. Frollo could never hide how disgusting and repulsive he found Quasimodo.

I'm curious as to what hints of maternal affection you picked up on; I recently saw the movie for the first time, and I read Gothel as entirely calculating and putting on an act to keep Rapunzel compliant, with her only interest at all being what she could get out of her. If you saw more depth or ambiguity there, I'm very interested to hear what you noticed that I missed, if you'd be willing to share?

personally, i sympathized with her because she reminds me of my mother and as abusive as my mother sometimes is to me, i still love her and i know she loves me too. i know it's not the same and my mother is not gothel and i am not rapunzel, but i see enough similarities in the things they do and say that make it difficult for me to hate her without hating my mother for the same reasons.

...If she loves you, she wouldn't abuse you.

while I don't AT ALL condone or excuse the anon's mother's actions, I don't know if we can really say that, dude.

you can love someone and still abuse them

sad but true

There is no such thing as a mother-daughter relationship that is not at least slightly emotionally abusive. Seriously. The power imbalance between mother and child makes it impossible.

My mother loves me with all of her heart. She is also passive-aggressive, controlling, and hard to live with. Healthy relationship? Not completely. Loving? Yes.

(no subject)

forthefluff.livejournal.com - 2011-11-04 02:36 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

i used to think that when i was 10 but i've grown to accept that this is just the way my parents are. being passive-aggressive and trying to impose their decisions on me doesn't mean they aren't saying those things out of spite. for others that might be the case, but i'm only speaking for my parents, who say a lot of the same things that gothel said out of genuine love and concern and without any ulterior motives.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2011-11-04 01:47 (UTC) - Expand

When I saw Tangled for the first time, the thing that struck me the most was how well they had captured the whole mother/daughter dynamic. I sympathized with BOTH of them; Rapunzel for wanting to strike out on her own and simultaneously feeling guilty for "abandoning" her mother, Gothel for wanting to shield Rapunzel from the world, even if it meant smothering her.

Yeah, I get that she was evil and wasn't doing it out of love and took it way too far, but she still reminded me of my own overprotective mom, and seeing everyone here call her straight-up abusive is kind of creeping me out. Did no one else think that in spite of having evil and selfish motives to begin with, Gothel might have developed some affection for Rapunzel after raising her from an infant? Or that maybe her feelings for Rapunzel might have been more nuanced than just "all about the hair"? To me it seemed that sometimes she acted EXACTLY like a mom, even if she wasn't exactly a good person.

Uh
Gothel was straight up abusive. She constantly belittled Rapunzel and a lot of people who have dealt with emotionally abusive parents have said that Gothel was scarily familiar to them. Just because she may have held some amount of affection for rapunzel that doesn't mean could not have also been abusive towards her

Also there was that whole part where she stabbed rapunzels boyfriend and then tried to chain her up and imprison her forever. That doesn't scream "well meaning" to me

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2011-11-04 23:53 (UTC) - Expand

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