[ SECRET POST #1766 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1766 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[was accidentally labeled a repeat before]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #252.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

pretty sure we just recently had a secret akin to this. the general consensus was that there are plenty of other ways to make villains villainous. i don't think that misogyny is a necessary subject for most video games to tackle, especially video games that are incredibly silly like mortal kombat. ideally, women would feel as comfortable playing these games as men do.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. And to some people the misogyny isn't even part of his evilness.
An ex friend of mine always went on about how the game just picks up "already given gender dynamics and accentuates them for the benefit of the gamer". In other words: "Misogyny is normal and how those women are portrayed is totally rad because I can fap to it, hurrr" :/

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

just picks up "already given gender dynamics and accentuates them for the benefit of the gamer"

omg there is nothing i hate more than pseudo-intellectual misogynist neckbeards, yuck yuck yuck pukes. i mean that sentence... basically means nothing, lol. nothing remotely intelligent, anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

Ok didn't play the games, but as i understood the post above me, it sounded more like he meant (might have meant) that they are using the stereotype of bad guys treating women like shit and not that women should be treated that way. Disrespect of people was always part of beeing the bad guy, so i see nothing bad in making a villain treat women like that. Aren't we suppossed to hate this guy?

[bogboblin.livejournal.com]

I don't think the friend was talking about Shao Kahn, but I am not the original anon.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

There ARE other ways to make villains villainous but misogyny/sexual assault themes are one of the EASIEST ways. And I'm pretty sure that's why game creators go that route. Because unless you have a serious mental affliction that affects your morals, you're gonna automatically mark someone who is an unrepentant rapist as "villain" 100% of the time. Creators have to do virtually no work to make that happen. It's lazy in a certain way but effective.

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

yeah, that's a good point. it also makes it even more problematic imo. if you make all your video game bad guys rapists, then it kind of contributes to the myth of real-life rapists all being "villains", when the reality is that people are most often raped by people they already know/trust. people who might otherwise do nice things can also be capable of rape.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

Well I have no problem calling real life sexual assailants "villains." That's what I think they are.

But I see your point. It perpetuates the idea that only random criminals are sexual assailants, which is very false.

[(Anonymous)]

Then they know/trust villains. Duh.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know about that. It certainly is a lazy way to establish a character as evil, and it's a common way, but the cheapness makes it cliche and lessens the impact. It's also often pretty thematically meaningless. If the game has no intention of addressing misogyny--and they pretty much never do--then it would be more effective to show us a character is evil by showing us what makes them a threat, their motivation, etc.

I won't say that it doesn't communicate "bad guy" since it obviously does, but I'd also say that it's far less effective than a more thoughtful method would be. OH NOES WORK.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

OH NOES WORK.

That's exactly it. Maybe I should have said "effective enough." Lazy creators don't care about thoughtful.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. I'm rapidly growing sick of media that, in order to show just how villainous a villain is, decide to make that villain misogynist and abusive to women. It's unfortunately quite common, and it feels lazy, as well as offputting to me.

[ariseishirou.livejournal.com]

Yep, I'm tired of it too. I wish we could have a moral grey area in this respect at least once in a little while. Maybe the hero's a chauvinist, even though he's fighting for the right side? But the bad guy, while doing evil, does respect women as equals.

Theirs nothing wrong with portraying misogyny as evil, because it is, but it's so boring. Where's the conflict? This is getting really tedious in fantasy, especially: the "good" country/race/people/what have you will live in a 1990s social justice paradise where homosexuality is fine with everyone, there's no racism, and women are treated exactly (or more or less exactly) like men. The "bad" people are always bigots.

Wouldn't it be way more interesting to have, say, a nation of necromantic baby-eaters who were completely accepting of alternative lifestyles versus paladins of justice who fed the poor and protected the weak... unless they were gay, in which case they'd be killed or exiled? Then readers would be given some pause for thought. Who to support? Or an evil colonialist empire that conquered planets and stole their resources versus a rebel alliance... only, the evil empire was completely equal opportunity and had many highly ranked women and outsiders, and the rebel alliance wanted women as nurses or sewing uniforms, and had an undercurrent of wanting to expel the invaders because their weren't of the same race/religion/etc. or were willing to work with people they considered untouchable. Which side would the readers cheer for? Wouldn't that be far more interesting and subversive?

But seriously, we get it Flewelling, Hobb, Britain, etc. - the bad guys are sexists. They hate gays. That's a very realistic and nuanced portrayal of reality. Western civilization yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

[(Anonymous)]

Theirs nothing wrong with portraying misogyny as evil, because it is, but it's so boring.

To be fair, this is Shao Kahn we're talking about. He's basically a dickhead frat boy with the power to take over worlds. Heck, his favorite insult to hurl at his opponents is "You suck!"

With that being said, more should be done to establish Shao Kahn's actions as gross and wrong. The developers obviously can't change his motives, but they can expand on them. Shao Kahn has destroyed many realms in the past and presumably killed all the men and captured all the women. And what does he do with the women? Dresses them in scant clothing and uses them as decoration. That is interesting. It's interesting because it's so horrifying. He sees women as nothing more than decorations. He replaces his own rebellious daughter with a more 'perfect' subservient (and sexualized) clone of her. That is also interesting.

The only problem is, the female characters are also portrayed as being sexy. There are ass shots, boob shots, dental-floss bikinis... The developers obviously didn't know if they want to portray Shao Kahn's actions as disturbing or something worth ogling. And that's where it all fall apart. If you're going to portray the capture, imprisonment and humiliation of women, don't show it as something sexy or worth ogling.

[ariseishirou.livejournal.com]

And what does he do with the women? Dresses them in scant clothing and uses them as decoration. That is interesting.

I strongly disagree. It's overdone to the point of tediousness. It's what every evil overlord does from Shao Kahn to Jabba the Hutt. Throws women into scanty clothing and sexual slavery. Very little could be more trite, pat, and snore-inducing, in my opinion.

different anon

[(Anonymous)]

shao kahn's been doing his shit since the 1992 so the makers aren't going to change his motives now. i doubt the makers were going for originality when they came up with shao kahn though. he's a world-destroying overlord who loves women. that's...pretty much all there is to his character. he has never really been anything more than a cheap final boss at the end of the game. even in the 2011 game he is still as generic and cheap as he was in 1992.

i always got the impression the makers like shang tsung more as a villain. a shapeshifting wizard who was cursed by the gods to absorb the souls of those he slays in order to maintain his youth and power? it might be a cliche too but i think he is a far more interesting character.

[(Anonymous)]

Which is why I kinda like Fire Nation vs the Southern(?) Water Tribe in Avatar. Fire Nation's bent on world domination and women soldier can be seen in the army. Meanwhile, female water benders are relegated to healing and whatever.

[loracarol.livejournal.com]

Northern Water Tribe is the one you're thinking of... AFAIK the Southern Tribe is a little more leniant (they let Kanna stay after she ran away from the Northern Water Tribe), and while Sokka is shown to be sexist at the beginning of the series, I don't think that's really a societal factor where his sexism is rooted in explicit mysogyny like the kind that exists in the North.

Plus, he gets better? Especially after ending up on Kyoshi Island.

But, yeah, you mean the Northern Water Tribe. :)

[(Anonymous)]

i kinda wish it was something that was tackled in the MK games tbh. or at least acknowledged. i'm fine with shao kahn claiming women. that's a pretty interesting plot point imo. but it's barely even mentioned in the story. just sort of hinted at when we find out sindel is his stolen wife and kitana is his stolen daughter.

[childings.livejournal.com]

Done in one.
And I know this is OT, but I always like seeing your posts because your Homestuck icon is so cute (it almost makes me want to try reading Homestuck again... almost)

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

hehe aww this is a really cute comment. well, since i'm kind of obsessed with it now, i want to do the annoying fan thing and yell OOOH GIVE IT ANOTHER SHOT (if/when you have time)! especially since i also had to give it a few shots before i really got into it. pretty much everyone acknowledges that it starts REALLY slowly and it takes a long time to stop being about a kid fucking around with cake and get to the good stuff, but imo it's super worth it haha! and yeah jade is adorable and one of my favorite characters and homestuck is also ridiculously cool when it comes to the role of women, so...

LOL I'M GOING TO STOP TALKING NOW. anyways my icon is from averyniceprince.tumblr and you don't really have to read homestuck to understand her stuff, which is very AU. <3

[(Anonymous)]

I love how bored the lady looks. "Eh, whatever. I'll just check out this shoe."