[ SECRET POST #1775 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1775 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 247 secrets from Secret Submission Post #254.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[amph87.livejournal.com]

Severe mental illnesses and extreme poverty should be pretty simple things to measure, at least. Anything that's practically guaranteed to cause a stressful, unpredictable environment for the child would prevent the person from getting a licence.

Any parent that's serious about giving their offspring a good life would sort out their problems BEFORE making babies, really :P

[kaatsu.livejournal.com]

Any parent that's serious about giving their offspring a good life would sort out their problems BEFORE making babies, really :P

This is such a fucking stupid sentiment that I want to reach through the internet and slap you.

[amph87.livejournal.com]

If I was seriously ill or in a terrible life situation, I wouldn't think about starting a family. If I got pregnant nevertheless (by accident) and genuinely cared about the kid's future, I'd choose adoption. This is a stupid reasoning to you?

[kaatsu.livejournal.com]

It's a reasoning (a classist, ablist reasoning). Assuming that your reasoning is the only correct one and that any others should be punished is pretty obviously terrible thinking.

The best way to provide happy, stable families for children is not by making sure that only the "correct" people have children. That has been tried many, many times. Guess what? They were horrific abuses of human rights that caused immense pain to many generations. The best way to make for stable families is to empower people to make good choices-- access to education, support networks, decent welfare, affordable medical care, affordable housing. But that would involve empathy and effort, wouldn't it? It's much easier just to blame the victims of our fucked up system than to try and fix the system itself.

[amph87.livejournal.com]

Basically you're suggesting that we should improve society as a whole before more specific problems like bad parenting can be solved, but that's a rather easy thing to say.

[kaatsu.livejournal.com]

You're conflating being ill or poor with bad parenting, which is bullshit.

[amph87.livejournal.com]

A rough environment or a mentally ill parent with abusive tendencies has no effect on a child's wellbeing, then?

Not claiming that they're impossibe to overcome, mind. But these things can get very bad in some families.

[kaatsu.livejournal.com]

Now you've thrown in "abusive" into the equation. That's misleading. Parents without mental issues can be abusive. Rich parents can be abusive. It's not a side-effect of being poor or being ill, which was your original premise.

Things can go wrong in all families. Singling out ill or poor parents for forced removal of their children is wrong for so many reasons.

[lumin0l.livejournal.com]

You are an ignorant puke. Just letting you know.

[(Anonymous)]

I'll ask this anon because I'm a wuss, but... why?

It seems to me that making sure you're in a stable life situation (which doesn't mean rich, mind, but if you're relying on public assistance such as food stamps or welfare, you probably aren't in a good position to have kids) is only good sense. Being able to provide for all of your child's basic necessities should be a given, and if you can't do that I'm not sure you have any business bringing a kid into the world.

I mean, I grew up in a household with an income below the national poverty level, but my mother was smart enough with her finances that we were never on public assistance programs. Heck, I didn't even realize we WERE poor until I was well into my teens. So I'm definitely not saying a family needs to be rich before having kids, but stable? Yeah, definitely.

Also, I feel I should point out that this doesn't apply to people who did have children responsibly, and then lost jobs and houses because of all the economic fuckery. That's hardly their fault.

[kaatsu.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right about the stability thing. Stable living situations are best for everyone, not just kids. The key is to not punish those that do not have stable situations, but to help everyone to be able to create a stable life for themselves.

Yowch. Your mother was poor but raised you well, and the message you took from that is not "poor people can raise children well" or "helping people learn good financial planning skills benefits whole families", but "my mum was one of the good ones"? That's more than a bit awful, man.

this doesn't apply to people who did have children responsibly, and then lost jobs and houses because of all the economic fuckery.

Oh man, no no no. If you think that financial instability is such a bad thing for children and that they should be removed from it, then you should believe in removing all children from it regardless of the underlying causes, surely? Not removing certain children from poverty because their parents were the good sort of parent (it wasn't their fault!), but removing others from the bad sort of parent (they were selfish and irresponsible!) is fucked up blatant classism. Please think about what you're saying.

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

you can't tell a single thing about a person's aptitude for parenting by looking at their bank account. those theoretical people you mentioned who lost their jobs and houses because of the economy - do they suddenly become bad parents once they miss their mortgage payments? is their entire personality irrevocably altered by their new financial situation? what if a dirt-poor family living off welfare had a kid and then suddenly found an oil well in their backyard and moved to Beverly Hills? are they better people now?

[stella-down.livejournal.com]

I was making a reference there, lol.

[amuseoffirebane.livejournal.com]

Sorry, reposted the comment because it didn't embed the way I wanted. But I had a feeling that was an on-purpose reference, too specific to be otherwise XD

[amuseoffirebane.livejournal.com]

what if a dirt-poor family living off welfare had a kid and then suddenly found an oil well in their backyard and moved to Beverly Hills?


I'm sorry but I can't not post this.

[velvet-mace.livejournal.com]

You think poor people can't be good parents? Really? If extreme poverty is an issue, don't you think we as a society should be preventing that, rather than worrying about if they are having children.

And I'd like to see the person who can predict everywhere their life will take them for the next 18 years. There is simply no way to predict what problems you'll have before making babies. None. Whatsoever.

[amph87.livejournal.com]

No matter how much I loved my kid I wouldn't raise them in what's practically a survival situation. Would you? Kids don't deserve stress and hunger.

Kids don't deserve miserable childhoods, period. Kids come first, not the parents; I don't care who raises them, biological or not, as long as they're NOT terrible people in terrible situations.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah but I think the question people are raising is: wouldn't it be a better course to try to get those people who are in survival situations out, rather than spending that effort policing their procreation? With as much abundance as industrialized nations have, there is no reason why those people should have to live in poverty.

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

Which would then turn into something that penalizes people with mental disorders and supports people who are very good at hiding their mental disorders--for example, sociopaths.

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

wow this is probably the stupidest thing i've seen anyone say in quite a while.

nice classism and ableism there, because obviously those darn poor people and mentally ill people can NEVER be good parents and kids can NEVER have happy and fulfilling lives in those circumstances!

[sweet-children9.livejournal.com]

That would be stupid and ableist at least. My mother suffers from depression for years and years and she is the best mom I could ever ask for.
Mental illness shouldn't be a reason not to have children, only if you think you are not capable of it because of that.

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

Depressed and awesome mom high five?

[sweet-children9.livejournal.com]

*HI FIVE*
At least she knows how it is to be depressed and is helping me dealing with my depression