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Since people pointed out Saturday isn't enough time to see what LJ is doing with this or about this, moved the potential moving date to New Years' - 1/1/2012.

[Poll #1805208]

The other poll is closed and this one will be open until Dec 31st! You can edit your vote by going here.

As a note, I'm completely willing to either stay or move. Updating the comm is easy enough for me either way.

1 - It's not only about subject lines. Others have written up potential problems better than I could:
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7005874#t7005874
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=6261682#t6261682
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7952050#t7952050

2 - For those worried about possibly needing to make DW accounts to comment, if a move happens: you don't need one! OpenID will let you comment as an LJ user (in the same way Facebook users can comment on LJ).

3 - For those worried about missing updates: I can crosspost to LJ to let you know a post is up (with a handy link over to it), I don't mind that (it's like a minute of extra work, no problem) - if the DW move happens though, the comments would be over there.

4 - Apparently, this is what we're getting next year.

5 - I'm aware workarounds are available - but those (or so I hear?) won't stay available for long. Also, those layouts have their own bugs. If someone can actually supply me with workable code that doesn't make long threads unreadable to change the layout, I'll give it a try.

6 -

raemia has an FAQ up here: http://raemia.livejournal.com/18347.html

7 - Tried the LJ workaround, give me your thoughts? Also contains links to what FS would look like on DW. Feedback on either/both?

8 - http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/811020.html?thread=511056908#t511056908 A good summary of the whole thing here by

demarafis.

Today's post is up below!

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Because they're too lazy to read how they won't have to sign up for Dreamwidth, and to realize that there's the option to do everything just the same as on livejournal, but not actually on livejournal.

(Seriously, Tech has even offered to have the same link and mirror the whole damn page so it's not a problem)

I have read and gotten that part just fine. I just fucking hate Dreamwidth a hell of a lot more than I like F!S. I don't care if I can "do everything the same", it's the thought of having to go to Dreamwidth at all in order to read F!S that isn't worth it.

DA

Out of curiosity, why do you hate Dreamwidth?

It's ugly. Way uglier than even LJ's upcoming new look. It's just as buggy as LJ, if not more. And the fandom sector of it was founded by social justice trolls. I refuse to go anywhere near it.

Oh, okay. It's interesting to hear these things. Thank you for answering.

"social justice trolls"

uh, is this not a positive feature? Who would not rather have people committed to social justice in charge? Or are you like, upset that you can't run a white power community or or say "retard" all the time or something weird like that?

No, it's not a positive feature. And by your comment I can tell there's no point in me explaining why. Go over to Dreamwidth and good fucking riddance.

whaat? The only sense I can make of this is that DW doesn't have enough senseless assholery for your tastes.

Fine, I guess I will explain it despite everything in me saying this is a bad idea.

When I say "social justice troll", I do not mean people who are calling out racism/misogyny/homophobia/etc. in order to raise awareness and actually get something good accomplished. "Troll" is the keyword here. By "social justice troll", I mean people who use social justice as a way to bully and harass others and get away with it because they're supposedly doing it for a good cause. The kind of people who tell someone using the word "retarded" in any context that they are horrible people who should go kill themselves for being ableist.

Dreamwidth is full of these kind of people who will jump down your throat and flood your inbox with insults and death threats over a single word, and not even saying you're sorry and you won't do it again is enough to make them stop wishing your house gets hit by a meteor or something.

And for the record, I belong to several of the minorities they claim to be trying to help.

these kind of people who will jump down your throat and flood your inbox with insults

You know, from your earlier reply to me, I'm not really so convinced that this is a problem with them rather than a problem with you. Or is your random hostility an LJ-only thing?

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(Anonymous) - 2011-12-23 06:22 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2011-12-23 07:43 (UTC) - Expand

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kitty-wake.livejournal.com - 2011-12-23 12:12 (UTC) - Expand

I'm with you on this one. I get *more* than enough of the social justice twits running off at the mouth about things they've got minimal real knowledge of outside of fandom. I don't want to deal with them in it. Rather than trying to fight an utterly pointless battle with them, I prefer stay out of the fandom areas where they congregate (like DW). (And please note that there's a difference between the social justice twits with their word vomit and real activists who are working to improve real problems.)

As a biracial person, no, it isn't a positive feature. The social justice trolls are just as bigoted as the people they claim to be fighting against. I've been insulted and name-called just on the premise of being mixed-race and having an opinion different them.

On the anon-meme for FS, POC spoke out in small thread about the problems they'd had with the SJ people.

The funny thing is, most of these so called social justice people are white, Western sociology students; they claim to be standing up for minorities like me, but when we disagree with them, or try and speak for ourselves, they cut us down and insult us! They are the true bigots here.

Yes. This. What they're doing is far more insidious to me. It's attempting to rob me of my agency and autonomy in the guise of "helping" me.

Sorry, SJers, it may break your heart to hear it but I don't need your fucking help. Not when it's merely another way to silence me. Not when your "help" is treating me like some kind of endangered fucking species instead of a human being with agency and self-awareness. Go to Hell, the lot of you.

They way they talk about us, examine us, speak for us; it makes me feel like an animal or a child. Like we're 'poor, innocent minorities', robbing us of our humanity by putting us on this pedestal, constantly victimizing us. I hate it.

I think everybody should be able to see how wrong their so-called 'justice' is.

"Social justice" is a totally generic term, though. Obviously someone who talks all over other people, or throws out death threats, that person's not someone you wanna be around.

Lots of people claim to stand for "equality" as well, and I'm sure some of them are assholes. Is there a set of "equality trolls" that I should be looking out for as well? Or, is it only white Western sociology students...I mean, social justice is pretty important to me - I've used indicators of social justice awareness when choosing a place to live and dealing with my employer - but I'm not a white sociology student, nor have I ever told someone to go kill themselves. Am I exempt? What are the exact qualifications for entry into the SJ trolls club?

Nope, I'd say you qualify for the troll club already by the way you're acting here. Dismissing other minority persons' concerns just because they doesn't jive with your own and all. You'll get along just fine on Dreamwidth.

^they don't. Damn I should've been in bed long ago.

The people voting to keep LJ are the majority, actually.

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(Anonymous) - 2011-12-23 06:56 (UTC) - Expand

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tuff-ghost.livejournal.com - 2011-12-23 07:11 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2011-12-23 07:15 (UTC) - Expand

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tuff-ghost.livejournal.com - 2011-12-23 07:24 (UTC) - Expand

You seem on defensive with this comment, but I may be wrong. I wasn't intended to point fingers at you, or intend in anyways that you are a member of the group I have an issue with. My comment was to show you that the 'social justice scene' is not a positive, especially for minorities like myself. They are doing more harm than good for us.

I admit, 'social justice' just in itself or in RL is a very generic term. I was refering to what I shall call the 'socail justice scene' with is a phenomenon that has cropped up on LJ and DW. The 'social justice scene' gets diccussed a lot on here, so I figured you knew I was talking about the 'scene' as opposed to just general social justice. I apologize for any confusion.

To answer your question, you're part of the 'scene' if you are constantly ranting about ~isms even when it's unwarranted, calling anyone you disagrees with you racist/sexist/etc., and hypocritically disregarding and shaming minorities who don't share you views as 'traitors'. The 'social justice scene' is to civil rights, is essentially as PETA is to animal rights.

Hope this cleared things up a bit.

Wow, what a marvelously polite comment in such a messy thread, you have patience like a saint. The PETA analogy works very well for me, thanks.

My only exposure to DW is from very occasionally checking out scans_daily, which is committed to social justice, but has always seemed pretty reasonable, or at least not full of PETA-style trolls.

And I can certainly get defensive on this point because it honestly looks like a next door neighbour to complaints about "political correctness taking over" and taking away people's god-given rights to be racist/queerphobic etc. "Our children can't celebrate xmas at school!!" that kind of thing. The weirdly vague demonization of a generic term was making me very sceptical.

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followthemoth.livejournal.com - 2011-12-23 09:16 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2011-12-23 13:56 (UTC) - Expand

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followthemoth.livejournal.com - 2011-12-24 00:22 (UTC) - Expand

Yes, I remember that thread. Thank you for quoting it, because it gets the point across more eloquently than I ever could.

Honestly? Most of the time it isn't. As someone already said, they tend to treat the minorities they claim to be 'helping' as animals or things that are to be examined, and as if they have no voices or ability to defend themselves of their own. Which, at least in my opinion, is pretty bigoted in it's own right. Particularly when they'll attack the very people they claim to be defending because that person disagrees with them.

They also have a habit of turning the social justice cause into a stick to beat anyone who has a different opinion of them with, even in things that aren't related to social justice. For example: You like a pairing I don't like? You must be '-insert 'ist' here-'! Of course, they dress it up with different words, and sometimes it does touch on a real issue, but the fact they tend to draw social justice into things for reasons completely unrelated to social justice still stands.

A more concrete example might be the fact I've seen them call someone a racist for shipping an interracial couple - even though, as the person explained, their reason for shipping that pairing had *nothing* to do with the races of the characters involved. The person who was calling racist, by the way, happened to *not* ship that particular pairing...and, in fact, ship a 'rival' pairing for one of the characters.

They also have a nasty habit of taking over conversations that have nothing to do with social justice ['Oh hey, what did you all think of the latest chapter/episode/thing-a-character did?'] and turning it into a social justice conversation - which wouldn't be a bad thing, except that a fair amount of the time they claim that people who want to stick with the original topic are an 'ist'.

So, all in all? No. It really doesn't tend to be a positive feature.

There's a metric fucktonne of them here on LJ too, though. So you have to deal with SJ trolls either way, don't you?

Not buying it. You can customize DW over there too. And you haven't given any factual examples of these social justice trolls. It's not a big surprise that there are assholes on the internet and DW isn't an exception. All I hear is a bunch of whiny ass QQ I don't like change.

All I hear is a bunch of whiny ass QQ I don't like change.

Funny, that's what I'm hearing from everyone who insists on moving...

you know, if LJRP moved to Dreamwidth, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't notice any actual difference in the number of SJWs. we've got those, too.

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