(no subject)

[case]

Since people pointed out Saturday isn't enough time to see what LJ is doing with this or about this, moved the potential moving date to New Years' - 1/1/2012.

[Poll #1805208]

The other poll is closed and this one will be open until Dec 31st! You can edit your vote by going here.

As a note, I'm completely willing to either stay or move. Updating the comm is easy enough for me either way.



1 - It's not only about subject lines. Others have written up potential problems better than I could:
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7005874#t7005874
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=6261682#t6261682
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7952050#t7952050

2 - For those worried about possibly needing to make DW accounts to comment, if a move happens: you don't need one! OpenID will let you comment as an LJ user (in the same way Facebook users can comment on LJ).

3 - For those worried about missing updates: I can crosspost to LJ to let you know a post is up (with a handy link over to it), I don't mind that (it's like a minute of extra work, no problem) - if the DW move happens though, the comments would be over there.

4 - Apparently, this is what we're getting next year.

5 - I'm aware workarounds are available - but those (or so I hear?) won't stay available for long. Also, those layouts have their own bugs. If someone can actually supply me with workable code that doesn't make long threads unreadable to change the layout, I'll give it a try.

6 - raemia has an FAQ up here: http://raemia.livejournal.com/18347.html


7 - Tried the LJ workaround, give me your thoughts? Also contains links to what FS would look like on DW. Feedback on either/both?

8 - http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/811020.html?thread=511056908#t511056908 A good summary of the whole thing here by demarafis.


Today's post is up below!

Comments

[demarafis]

(This is what I understand to be happening. I can't guarantee everything to be correct because this is a new situation and information may still be coming in.)

Technophile is asking whether people support moving the comment section of F!S to DreamWidth. AFAIK, crossposting WILL occur for LJ!FS.

Against the move:
- LJ is where fandom is. The situation will blow over soon. People will remain. We're just making a mountain out of a mole hill.
- Technical issues with the site will be resolved soon.
- New design is nifty.
- New features like expand all comments and "new comment" bubbles are great
- People honestly just don't like DW because of its community or its layout designs or other personal reasons
- OpenID is not a possible alternative for some

Why LJ sucks right now:
- The new comment layout for S1 (which is the default style for all non-paid members) is actively causing migraines and headaches. No word on what exactly is causing this problem, or when a solution might be available.
- Incompatibility issues with screen readers for the blind and keyboard-only users are likewise being discussed. Again, no word on when it will be resolved.
- Problems with icon selection, commenting with the newest version of Firefox, inability to load with slow connections/slow computers have actual support tickets and are being worked on. However, there is no word on when the patches will roll out.
- Problems with browsing via mobile devices are being worked on (freezing while loading, icon selection, posting comments). Again, no word on when it will be fixed.
- The removal of comment subject lines are making it very difficult for RP games and sales posts and memes right now. Using S2 brings the comment subject lines back, but it is available for paid users only and it is buggy (which is why using S2 is not possible for F!S)
- Comment subjects are not coming back at all. There will be a new update coming out that makes S2 (the current style work-around to the no subject line problem) remove the comment subjects for ALL anon posts, even for comms using S2. This will make it almost impossible for anon memes to operate.
- LJ staff has shown again and again that they don't care about the users. igrick, head of Russian LJ, is openly dismissive of English-using users on his twitter (saying that English comments of site problems on the lj-releases post are spam) and on LJ proper. He also ignores critism in Russian. Plus, some LJ staff actively troll LJ users.
- LJ will be undergoing a complete face lift. This information is not made available to non-Russian users, of course.

Why DW is good:
- DW is not facing DDoS attacks every month
- DW has volunteers and developers that actively respond to questions and suggestions and offer plain English versions of bug patches in updates.
- DW is hoping to push out a fix that import entire communities to DW by this weekend
- With OpenID, you can subscribe/comment/receive email notification of replies. You won't have a DW journal to post entries to though.
- DW has a native "expand all comments" function
- DW's lj-cuts can be expanded without reloading the entire page.

See lj_release for list of bugs currently being worked on.
See raemia's post here for info on the new LJ prototype (which has gone live for the Singapore version of LJ, apparently), automatic payment option being turned on without users' approval, and other info.
In addition, I strongly suggest reading factionary's translations of igrick's twitter comments and collection of examples of LJ staff abusing users.

Personally, I support even a temporary move to DW while LJ sort its problems out. Sure some people have reasons for not liking DW, but I think having F!S completely inaccessible to a number of users is a bigger issue.

Please keep in mind that your decision is your own. If you vote for or against, I don't care. Just, please read all the info regarding the new update before making your decision.

[ohyoursocool.livejournal.com]

Oh damn. I didn't know about any of this stuff. I use to be a hardcore user of LJ but rarely use it now. I just get on to update my LJ time to time and then go to this group or any other secret groups to just look around. I rarely comment on things anymore. I understand why people are mad and stuff. I just been having my name for so long I'd hate to go to another site. Then again I swear I had once joined that DW site... not sure. But, trying to remake friends and join comms or whatever would be just annoying when I rarely even get on LJ half the time. So, IMA just stick with LJ... or if I do have a DW name like I think I may... I can use both. I don't know.

Thank you for the info though!

[(Anonymous)]

For whatever it's worth, I think it's possible for some users [at the very least] to log in using their lj as an open id. So you wouldn't have to abandon your lj name.

I'm not saying this to try to get you to change your mind, but I don't think they mentioned that in their post, so I thought I'd put it out there.

[ohyoursocool.livejournal.com]

Oh that is interesting. Well I still think I made a name for DW a long time ago. But, I don't remember. I will probably make a name to just check the place out and if this place moves over there then I will get on to see the updates.

Ugh, corrections that should have been caught if preview was available, and some additions

[demarafis]

*woah, didn't expect to be linked to the main post*

Corrections:
- See lj_releases for the list of bugs currently being worked on.
- DW's "Expand All" comments function is only available for paid members

Clarification on the S2 workaround and upcoming update:
Re-reading it now, I don't think I explained the S2 workaround situation well enough. Please read about it on raemia's page here

Something fic-writing people might like about DW:
- DW's maximum character limit for journal entries is 300,000. This means stories of up to ~50,000 words can be posted to DW without breaking it into parts.

Some people have voiced concerns about DW. However, I'm not aware of these concerns. I'd appreciate it if people can link to examples so I can be informed of your concerns. Thank you.

Re: Ugh, corrections that should have been caught if preview was available, and some additions

[(Anonymous)]

Additional notes:

- DW now has a flat link on every post, though that's probably not too useful for F!S.

- "Expand All" is also available on paid comms for everyone, even anons.

- Basic accounts get 30 icons, paid get 100.

- Basic information for the curious (http://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=121)

- Crossposting doesn't require any effort beyond a couple minutes of setup and clicking a single checkbox each time you post. Therefore, this comm could easily crosspost and be in both places at once. Not only that, but importing can be done at regular intervals. The importer recognizes posts and comments that are old and does not reimport them, only bringing in the new. It does not override posts or comments made on the DW end. Comments added to the LJ version of a post are merged with comments made on the identical DW version, using OpenID so you can continue to have control over your comments after they are imported.

tl;dr - I was just trying to point out that crossposting could make it unnecessary to have this poll at all, as BOTH sides could get exactly what they want - F!S posts with comments open to them. (Assuming crossposting for comms will work the same as for journals, which I seriously hope it will.)



I started out on OpenID for a while and then got a journal because I wanted to be more a part of the community at DW. A lot of what happens there right now is more on flists than in comms, but there are some exceptions.

Re: Ugh, corrections that should have been caught if preview was available, and some additions

[case]

Crossposting means double the work for me, though - crossposting is easy, but setting up the comments and keeping track of things on two posts is much more work than just updating the LJ comm with a link to the DW one or something like that.

Re: Ugh, corrections that should have been caught if preview was available, and some additions

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, I'd forgotten about setting up the comments. Sorry about that! I would never want to create more work for you, when you do so much already.

I'll just go back to thinking, like a bear with a very small brain.

Re: Ugh, corrections that should have been caught if preview was available, and some additions

[(Anonymous)]

I can definitely see moderating two sets of comments as an unreasonabke workload, but would you actually have to set up the comments twice if there's this 'import comments' thing? Surely you'd just set them up once, then click 'import'?

But moderating two sets would be horrible, unless you could find a trusty sidekick.

Re: Ugh, corrections that should have been caught if preview was available, and some additions

[firelement85.livejournal.com]

It needs to be one or the other, LJ or DW, because if half the people are here and the other half there it will ruin discussion. Comments can be imported but my understanding is that they only import when you tell DW to do it. I make a comment here, it doesn't all of a sudden show up at DW. Every day techno could import comments and then they would transfer but why do that.

Posting here with a link to the actual DW post is enough.