Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-01-10 07:26 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-01-10 07:26 pm
[ SECRET POST #1834 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 89 secrets from Secret Submission Post #262.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
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But Prime!Megatron is downright terrifying, both in looks and in actions. "Sick Mind" is what changed the whole feel of the character for me.
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-11 02:05 am (UTC)(link)It's honestly p. got dang creepy.
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But no. For me, he's always the pug. (http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsi59mbirH1qgwl0ho1_r1_1280.jpg)
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I get why Starscream is alive; he's an important character and the writers didn't want to off him in just the first season (and I don't want Screamer to die yet either cuz', well, Prime!Starscream is awesome), but it's clear that it's cheap plot convenience. Sadly, I think it's closely in-character for Prime!Megatron, but that only confirms my feeling that he's just a big bully whose only Top Dog because he's physically stronger than everyone. Dude can't strategize for shit.
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They throw out lines that make sense with the entirety of the continuity of the character dating back to the 80's, but sometimes it has no real context or application to the character as they've been restructured within the reboot. Like the fact that Starscream is spared for reasons unknown. It's always been that way. But I'd hope by now, they'd be writing or at least hinting at whatever worth he has. Though, I'm still glad he didn't die just because he's the one who always dies even when almost no one dies (TFA). I almost hope he stays gone, just because it would be sort of interesting and unexpected for the history of the character. Better than him blazing in just to die like in every other continuity he's been in.
The new movies gave a bit of a different twist on the characters, and for Megatron, I think that the writers trying to reference everything is starting to make them sort of bipolar. Especially in the case of Megatron. But, when he's fighting some personal high school dissed battle against Optimus Fortune Cookie Speech Prime.... Maybe all the speeches drove him insane. Like some kind of overly lectured zombie.
He tried to use the dark energon to plug his robo-ears.
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This. Adding to what you said, it's 2012. There's no reason for a series like TF Prime to relay on its 80s counterpart's logic. It just does not work anymore and should not be an excuse. We actually expect our stories and characters to have justification for their actions now. I'm not trying to bash TF Prime to the ground because I really think the series has immense potential, but I won't lie; it's not a very great series. Every time it pulls something awesome, it reverts a complete 180 into mediocre and/or awfulness (one day, I will sit down and write that drinking game list for every cheesy dialogue/one-liner I see in the show and there are WAAAY too many in here). Transformers Animated/Beast Wars it is not (though I am prepared to eat my words and change my mind if Season 2 suddenly becomes the greatest shit ever).
"Like the fact that Starscream is spared for reasons unknown."
To his sliiiight credit, Megatron actually did explain it. He kept Starscream alive to prove he's the Top Dog. Of course, I just think it's the dumbest reason ever and again, only pushes how I feel on Prime!Megatron. And here's the irritating part. In Episode 20, Megatron actually tells Airachid that Starscream is alive because he contains valuable Decepticon information. I honestly think that is a good reason. However, he should have said this five episodes ago when Starscream is revealed to be alive and in sickbay. Even than, I could counter myself and say Megs could easily download Starscream's Decepticon secrets (cuz', ya know, they're robots) and easily dispose of him. But still, there was a good reason; it was just a case of too little, too late. By the time I learned that specific piece of info, I stopped respecting Megatron.
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I dunno if I'll give Megatron much credit for that. It just kind of proves that he's even more ridiculously insane than ever. I'm sure if I read the comics that go along with it and tack on the loose back stories, it might not be the case, but I shouldn't need to spend that much free time and money going through extra material just to make the major production make proper sense. This time, the Decepticons don't seem quiiiite as afraid of him, so I guess Megatron might be technically more benevolent towards his army. But Starscream? I need to make an example of him every week? That might work, except the fact that they also wrote Starscream as a complete failure at just about everything after the first episodes. I forgot he was evil half the time because it seemed like he was having the longest run of Murphy's Law I'd ever seen. And by making Starscream so woobly that half the fandom just wants to build him a pillow padded hug box, it then makes Megatron look pretty ridiculous for using him as an example when there are other more menacing or equally dangerous seeming characters.
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I don't mind the occasional cheese here and there, but the series is not only rifled with them, but it also has a bad problem with cliche dialogues and Explaining-Too-Much-Exposition-Because-We-Have-To-Tell-Our-Target-Audience-What-Is-Going-On syndrome. I'm annoyed at that and it's hard to sit through half the time. Hence why I should totally make a drinking game out of it. XD
"This time, the Decepticons don't seem quiiiite as afraid of him, so I guess Megatron might be technically more benevolent towards his army. But Starscream? I need to make an example of him every week?"
I recently rewatched "Operation: Breakdown" where Megatron told Starscream that he refuses to rescue Breakdown from MECH and no one in the Decepticon force should do it either. No, he is not more benevolent to his army. He disposes those who are weak and if anyone opposes, he'll likely smack them senseless (though it totally makes for fridge brilliance on why the Vehicons are unimportant cannon fodder XD). He is a big, dumb shark.
In contrast, I like TFA Megatron who clearly values his Decepticons more. This is mostly from memory, but though he can be exasperated whenever they do something stupid, I don't think TFA Megatron has ever physically or emotionally abused them. To him, he truly values those who follow and respects him and he in return pays them back just as kindly, if not in a leader sort of way. After all, the Decepticons in TFA are more or less "freedom fighters", so he needs every Decepticon he can get. Being a good boss while posing as an intimidating and inspiring figure proves TFA Megatron is not only strong, but smart.
"That might work, except the fact that they also wrote Starscream as a complete failure at just about everything after the first episodes. I forgot he was evil half the time because it seemed like he was having the longest run of Murphy's Law I'd ever seen. And by making Starscream so woobly that half the fandom just wants to build him a pillow padded hug box, it then makes Megatron look pretty ridiculous for using him as an example when there are other more menacing or equally dangerous seeming characters."
Actually, it's funny because I think Prime!Starscream started off very threatening before he dwindled over the course. There was a scene in the beginning pilot where he threatens to shoot Fowler. Arcee, Bee, and Bulkhead has him at gunpoint, but Starscream never backs down. He is clearly in control and I thought it was a badass moment for him. Even if he does tend to runaway constantly, it's a very Starscream thing to do, so I don't hold it all against him.
...Then Episode 20, "Partners" ruined him. I like that episode, but I felt turned off on how much of a wuss they made Screamer there. Nevermind that he's captured, except for that one scene where he tricks Arcee (and that was a cool scene), he acted so...wussy that I couldn't stomach it. Though I am very curious on what Starscream plans to do next. He's probably one of the few things I'm waiting for Season 2 on.
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Man. I'm showing my roommate Batman the Animated Series, so re-watching that makes it even more painful to think about this. Everyone goes 'oh, it's a kid show, you shouldn't expect anything else!' That's a really bad excuse for this sort of thing. I've actually gotten irritated by the way Prime responds to some of Arcee's off the wall vengeance lust. She's screwed up massively, and instead of the satisfaction of seeing him angry and forgiving her, he just rattled off some fortune cookie crud like he didn't even have the chips to respond like an actual character.
I recently rewatched "Operation: Breakdown" where Megatron told Starscream that he refuses to rescue Breakdown from MECH and no one in the Decepticon force should do it either. No, he is not more benevolent to his army.
I meant benevolent more in a hands off kind of way. Other than Starscream, he doesn't appear to fully raise his hand against the other mechs, though it could be said to be somewhat implied. Breakdown and Knockout seem in awe of him, but it doesn't smack of outright fear. Then again, they're Decepticons and this show is about as black and white as it can manage to push itself, so it might just be their brazen evil. I don't put leaving a soldier to their own in quite the same category of outright blasting them himself. Though, given that they seem to have few numbers, it really does seem like a stupid move to make.
Maybe he figures he can always go get some more zombies. Or hordes of Steve.
This is mostly from memory, but though he can be exasperated whenever they do something stupid, I don't think TFA Megatron has ever physically or emotionally abused them
He was shown in the first episode to have bent Starscream's wing. So there was definitely some intimidation factor there and Starscream reacted pretty much as if it was the status quo. That was before what is implied to be the 'first attempt' on his life. But TFA is overall more aloof and his own presence to begin with. I really did like him. The silent menace of him reminds me of IDW Megatron (only less frowny) and their inclusion of the fact that the Autobot government was a pack of dicks really made that show interesting to ponder. I don't give it nearly enough credit in my memory.
Actually, it's funny because I think Prime!Starscream started off very threatening before he dwindled over the course. There was a scene in the beginning pilot where he threatens to shoot Fowler. Arcee, Bee, and Bulkhead has him at gunpoint, but Starscream never backs down.
Well, that's my point. Pretty much all of his shining moments were in the beginning multi-parter. After that, he's pretty much a joke. But their 'badguy of the week' take of the Decepticons makes everything feel super washed out anyway. I'll entirely give TFA credit for that. I loved the fact that they wanted to stay away from dumbing the 'Cons down into bad guys of the week. I loved the fact that Megatron made Starscream look like a weakling, but it still took all of the Autobots together to even try to take him down. It gives it all a greater sense of danger. Considering the fact that TFA was pretty firmly a kooky kid's show that slathered on the comedy thick, it's really sad that the Decepticons there were much more menacing bad guys than the overly dramatic standard that TFP pulls out.
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Yeah, Optimus is a fairly boring character here. All he does is fight or sprout out some wisdom he probably found on his desk calender. There's some interesting moments between him and Megatron which actually made for an awesome season finale. We all know Megatron wants his boyfriend back anyway. XD
"I meant benevolent more in a hands off kind of way. Other than Starscream, he doesn't appear to fully raise his hand against the other mechs, though it could be said to be somewhat implied. Breakdown and Knockout seem in awe of him, but it doesn't smack of outright fear. Then again, they're Decepticons and this show is about as black and white as it can manage to push itself, so it might just be their brazen evil. I don't put leaving a soldier to their own in quite the same category of outright blasting them himself. Though, given that they seem to have few numbers, it really does seem like a stupid move to make."
I think Prime!Megatron values strength. If someone goes against and shows his weakness, then Megatron considers you unworthy, so forget that weakling. Well, it certainly fits the big, dumb shark (yeah, I like calling him a "shark" XD). TFA Megatron I see as someone who truly think is fighting for the Decepticon cause. He's rough, but he's a lot more subtle, quiet, and as you said, aloof. There is that intimidating factor and yeah, I can totally see him aggressively attack his own, but likely because they themselves weren't being loyal in the first place. I guess one could say Prime!Megatron and TFA!Megatron does treat their fellow 'Cons in the same way, but through different means. At best, we can agree that TFA Megatron is loads smarter and honestly looks like he knows what the hell he's doing. I personally like that TFA Megatron isn't the kind to really SHOUT EVERY SINGLE SENTENCES LIKE A HAMMY DUMBLOCK LIKE PRIME!MEGATRON. Oh gods, the ham in Prime could stretch as far as the cheesy dialogues. XD
"He was shown in the first episode to have bent Starscream's wing. So there was definitely some intimidation factor there and Starscream reacted pretty much as if it was the status quo."
But that's Starscream, everyone abuses Starscream. XD Nah, joking, I get what you mean. I completely forgot that.
"and their inclusion of the fact that the Autobot government was a pack of dicks really made that show interesting to ponder. I don't give it nearly enough credit in my memory."
Agreed. The exploration of very gray territories for both the Autobots and Decepticons were a treat. Yeah, in the end, it's still a general good vs. evil, but I love the idea that all the Autobots aren't always good. They have their flaws like everyone else and perform questionable acts,even if it's to their benefits. I'm also very intrigued that the series in general seem to indicate that the Autobots are xenophobic and often narrow-minded people. I love the idea of the Decepticons, though clearly looking out for themselves, actually has a very good justification to see themselves as freedom fighters and fight for their rights. Damn it, TFA is such a redheaded stepchild and deserves a lot more than what it got. Where is Season 3 on DVD, Hasbro? D:
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This is definitely true. Granted, I didn't have quite the squee attack that my friends did, but it was still the most interesting thing that happened in that whole thing. I think I was slightly distracted by their flash back implication that Orion's voice was such like the voice of an angel that it made the entire Council cry and make him Prime. Though, from what I hear of Exodus, that isn't quite the case, but I don't know what to think about the entire Exodus>Exiles>War for Cybertron>Fall of Cybertron>Prime thing. It kind of seems like they had a board meeting with all the heads of these teams, gave some skeleton outlines and split. It's hard to say what should be considered actual carry over. And this isn't even counting the comic side stories for all of these.
TFA Megatron I see as someone who truly think is fighting for the Decepticon cause.
I really liked this about TFA Megatron. I know his bio stated that he thought of himself as a freedom fighter. Just wish more of that would have made it into the dialog writing for the show. There are hints, but the good vs evil deal does tend to take over.
I personally like that TFA Megatron isn't the kind to really SHOUT EVERY SINGLE SENTENCES LIKE A HAMMY DUMBLOCK LIKE PRIME!MEGATRON. Oh gods, the ham in Prime could stretch as far as the cheesy dialogues
If I could put that dialog on a pizza, I'm pretty sure that it'd be more than even I could handle. I appreciate that they were trying to go epic in TFP, I guess, but I agree that it's like they bit off more than they could chew. A lot of it is just really painful, though I can't always speak for Megatron. Sometimes I'm busy pissing everyone off by barking while he goes nuts. So, to be honest, I might not have heard his every line over the course of the show.
I'm also very intrigued that the series in general seem to indicate that the Autobots are xenophobic and often narrow-minded people. I love the idea of the Decepticons, though clearly looking out for themselves, actually has a very good justification to see themselves as freedom fighters and fight for their rights. Damn it, TFA is such a redheaded stepchild and deserves a lot more than what it got. Where is Season 3 on DVD, Hasbro?
I was sad when it got cancelled. It was starting to go in a really interesting direction, and I seriously doubt they could just catch Megatron up and hope to keep him. And I think there were hints of the xenophobia in old Marvel, but nothing so widespread. It was adorable and I loved the throw back talking to the mechanics and thinking humans were pets at first. And man, the Autobot Council felt like almost as much of a bad guy as the Decepticons for the main cast. The experiments to make Omega Supreme? The creation of the Jet-Twins? Wonderful gray area.
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"Well, that's my point. Pretty much all of his shining moments were in the beginning multi-parter. After that, he's pretty much a joke. But their 'badguy of the week' take of the Decepticons makes everything feel super washed out anyway. I'll entirely give TFA credit for that. I loved the fact that they wanted to stay away from dumbing the 'Cons down into bad guys of the week."
Ahh, I see. In which case, I lend my agreement because I feel the same. Weirdly though, I wanted to see more Starscream as badguy of the week. Mainly because 1.) I adore Prime!Starscream. 2.) Because I think the idea of him gradually failing to what he ends up in "Partners" might have been more natural. I honestly thought Megatron would not awaken till the season finale and I still wished it did; would have been more awesome. That and the writers probably could have held off Unicron much later. Seriously, they used the TF Devil in the Season One finale AND made it so that he's basically Earth (which I still think is stupid). What if they want to create something even more epic by the last episode? They likely wrote themselves into a corner with that! Er...but I digress. XD
"Considering the fact that TFA was pretty firmly a kooky kid's show that slathered on the comedy thick, it's really sad that the Decepticons there were much more menacing bad guys than the overly dramatic standard that TFP pulls out."
Not that I'm accusing you of this, but I never understood why it should really matter if something is too childish or lighthearted. A nicely written series is a nicely written series and TFA is a nicely written series. Biased opinion maybe because currently, TFA is my personal favorite incarnation of Transformers (and actually, having TFA lighthearted actually does make their darker moments more horrifying: Oh, god, BLURR). But hey, even the two-part Rescue Bots actually impressed the hell out of me more than Transformers Prime entire first season. Honestly, I know this is going to sound, well, weird, but I think TF Prime went a bit too ambitious for its own good.
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This would have been interesting and could have been lovingly gradual and psychological. In Rock Bottom and Partners Starscream seriously unravels. There is a bit of lead up to that and his desperation, but it could have been fleshed out. Prime!Scream is seriously adorable and contradictory. What I really would have liked was maybe an escalating sense of danger to the Autobots. It never really feels like anything is going to happen to them. Between Super Samurai Ranger Wheeljack making them all look like chumps and Roids Rage Ratchet (who I wouldn't trade for the world), I was spending way too much time wondering if Arcee was right and the Autobots should just end this whole war crap. I mean, they were wiping the floor with them every time. The only wall they seemed to hit was Megatron, who was so amazingly unconcerned I also count that as one of his best moments.
Seriously, they used the TF Devil in the Season One finale AND made it so that he's basically Earth (which I still think is stupid). What if they want to create something even more epic by the last episode?
I'm not sure how they'll top Unicron. Or what he could have been. Honestly, he felt more like a game boss battle. Especially with all the random encounters battles.
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That scene where he tricks Arcee is like his saving grace. It was good, though I don't know why he'd still be playing the same song for Megatron after a millennia. It's not like it'd work. Though, I've got to give the VA credit. He did all of that sobbing and whining very convincingly.
I'm also not sure what's going to happen next for Starscream. I've seen people on tumblr quoting an interview I never got a link to from some of the creators of the show outright saying that they didn't think he was an important character. They had an opportunity to do a lot with him, but I feel like they're going to squander it, and if he does come back it will be to dance out his old 'fly back in and die out of no where' routine that we've seen a million times before. Armada had him switch to the good guy role, and while I don't feel like that would fit TFA Starscream at all, there are still a lot of ways they could have pulled interesting characterization out of all of the characters while even having him fake it. I don't exactly feel like characterization is what the TFA writers are all that interested in. How many times do we have to watch Miko realize that she can completely fuck up with her cavalier attitude about the fighting and then do the exact same shit the very next week?
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I never understood why many people though Steve Blum's voice was sexy. Granted, I only heard him in a handful of roles, so I wasn't well used to it. Then he played Prime!Starscream and I finally, finally got it. Yeah, Starscream is my favorite character in this series and I honestly never thought I would even like a Starscream. O_O
"I've seen people on tumblr quoting an interview I never got a link to from some of the creators of the show outright saying that they didn't think he was an important character."
Really? Forgive me for being skeptical; I usually don't trust much unless there is a reliable source to back it up. Besides, the writers would be nuts if they think that. It's Starscream. It'd be one thing if he wasn't in the series or underutilized, but it's Starscream. I need to look at some of the interviews, too because I swore I read somewhere that the writers loved writing Screamer. *shrugs*
"They had an opportunity to do a lot with him, but I feel like they're going to squander it, and if he does come back it will be to dance out his old 'fly back in and die out of no where' routine that we've seen a million times before. Armada had him switch to the good guy role, and while I don't feel like that would fit TFA Starscream at all, there are still a lot of ways they could have pulled interesting characterization out of all of the characters while even having him fake it. I don't exactly feel like characterization is what the TFA writers are all that interested in. How many times do we have to watch Miko realize that she can completely fuck up with her cavalier attitude about the fighting and then do the exact same shit the very next week?"
The show indeed has very bad problems with characters (and don't get me started on Miko, kid needs to be set on FIRE). A lot of people criticize TFA's first season for his lightheartedness, but I personally think it's my favorite season of TFA. That's because they really paid special attention to all the main characters. The chemistry there were impeccable. Yeah, Arcee does have a great character arc in Prime, but what about the others? They teetor-totter over the other casts and rarely do they grow as she did or the major cast of TFA. Even Rescue Bot's two-parter equally spent time with the main cast. I hope Season 2 fixes this now that the writers possibly have a better feel.
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XD I'm never good at gauging sexy, but he was definitely good in this role. I do like Prime!Starscream, though I do wonder how much of that is the fact that Starscream is my favorite general character. Technically, I think my favorite Prime character would be Knock Out or Ratchet. Ratchet is always amazing. Especially when extra cranky.
I need to look at some of the interviews, too because I swore I read somewhere that the writers loved writing Screamer. *shrugs*
I probably wouldn't count it, either. Honestly, I'm having a bit of a hard time finding references to interviews on this series quickly that aren't massive bitchfests by people who were loudly unhappy about the show and losing their minds.
Not that I'm accusing you of this, but I never understood why it should really matter if something is too childish or lighthearted. A nicely written series is a nicely written series and TFA is a nicely written series. (Out of order now? Gah!)
I'm not saying that it matters, what I'm referring to is target audience and intent, really. TFA felt like it had a younger target in tone, but it didn't dumb itself down because of that. It still had a good bit of meat and most people who had problems with it were because of the things that they decided to make their own rather than simply G1 homages. I also agree that it feels like TFP bit off more than it could chew. I wish they'd slowed down a bit and spent a bit more time on things like that cheese. If they wanted cheese, it'd be fine, but it feels more like trying way too hard to be epic.
Yeah, Arcee does have a great character arc in Prime, but what about the others?
Ugh. Arcee is actually kinda beginning to irritate me. She does have good character arcs, but they all sort of revolve around her obsession with the horrors that she experienced and the partners that she lost. Both wonderful concepts, but it's just strung out. There has been several times where they almost deal with her desire for vengeance, but Prime's calendar speeches make it feel like it's never dealt with head on. Then she goes the Miko route. Same shit next week. Granted, I'm not sure anything can be as annoying as that girl child. What were they thinking? I want June to be the obligatory female groupie.
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-11 03:34 am (UTC)(link)no subject