[ SECRET POST #1835 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1835 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.



__________________________________________________

02.


__________________________________________________

03.


__________________________________________________

04.


__________________________________________________

05.


__________________________________________________

06.


__________________________________________________

07.


__________________________________________________

08.


__________________________________________________

09.


__________________________________________________

10.


__________________________________________________

11.


__________________________________________________

12.


__________________________________________________

13.


__________________________________________________

14.


__________________________________________________

15.


__________________________________________________

16.


__________________________________________________

17.


__________________________________________________

18.


__________________________________________________

19.


__________________________________________________

20.


__________________________________________________

21.


__________________________________________________

22.




Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 61 secrets from Secret Submission Post #262.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[peachxcandy.livejournal.com]

Just curious, in what culture exactly is "girly" used as a negative term towards girls? That seems like a very poorly-worded insult.

[(Anonymous)]

Western culture? Okay, maybe it sounds a bit harsher than it is, but I did grow up in an environment (not just talking about people, but media too) that gave me the feeling that being girly was a bad thing. I think it's quite recent that people started criticising this "real women don't wear dresses" trope.

[peachxcandy.livejournal.com]

Not questioning you, but that's interesting and not something I've ever experienced. At least where I'm from, hinting that a girl is masculine is generally intended quite derogatorily, while telling a girl that she's girly and feminine is usually a either a compliment or a neutral statement, but not at all negative.

[(Anonymous)]

It's this kind of lose-lose situations. Saying that a girl is masculine is insulting, but saying that she's girly is too. I think the anon below explained it quite well.

[childings.livejournal.com]

I'm female and my three sisters and I were very much raised to devalue femininity. I never remember a specific time or instance where either of my parents ever came out to specifically condemn femininity, I mean, up until a certain age in elementary school, my parents bought girl's clothes for me and my mother did buy some gender-specific toys for my siblings and I (most of them were gender neutral though), but in general growing up I had this weird complex about gender. I remember really having a disdain for feminine girls in my school and I really don't know where that came from. In middle school and high school I became a bit more feminine but I always tried to hide it from my parents and especially my father, like I would be reading Sassy and my dad would walk into my room and I'd scramble to hide it like it was porn. I know I'm kind of rambling but this is stuff that I just find really troubling and almost traumatic as an adult and I'd like to know where it came from. For fuck's sake, I'm almost THIRTY and only now realizing that it's perfectly okay to be feminine and that it's not a sign of weakness or a negative trait. That's really sad.

I think your idea that this comes partially from the media might have truth to it -- most female characters on television in the eighties or nineties that were feminine were boring and never got to have any fun or go on adventures or anything like that, it was always boys and men who got to do those things. There were some exceptions (Sailor Moon, Clarissa Explains It All, etc.) but they were just that, exceptions, not the rule

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Exactly! And Sailor Moon and Clarissa, which I both loved, I had to watch in secret because nobody I knew liked it. Why? Because it was so "girly".

[(Anonymous)]

Girly comes with a lot of baggage in usage and often people use it to make someone appear young and stupid so they can demean them or ignore what they're saying. In my experience you get it like a sarcastic "you're so cute" that comes when someone disagrees with you but doesn't want to give proof so they resort to insulting your character instead.

Men will use "that's so girly" as an insult to other men since girly is the opposite of manly and all things manly are good and all things girly are bad as per general stereotype. Women who are "girly" are not allowed to exercise qualities associated with men (leadership, authority, etc.).

Also "girly" being used to describe anyone over let's say 18 just to be fair seems condescending to me. I know that doesn't apply to the secret since most of the shows are about HS students or younger just another way that girly gets applied in a negative context. It's closer to someone telling you that you're acting like a child than it is to "that's so feminine" at that point :/

I'm not arguing against the word or anything of the sort I'm just saying it can be really insulting fairly easily but not openly like calling someone a 4 letter word might be.

[peachxcandy.livejournal.com]

I've seen this sort of thing but always personally associated it much more with context and the attitude of the speaker. If someone is obviously being intentionally insulting, depending on the situation and people involved, it seems that nearly anything could be taken negatively. Of course, men almost always use "girly" as an insult towards other men, but I've never personally heard it used derogatorily towards females. That said, I'm quite young in relation to most of this community, and I could definitely see your point about "girly" vs. "feminine" in somewhere like the workplace or a professional setting. I would still associate that more with context, but that's me.

[princesoup.livejournal.com]

uh i don't get that

surely calling a man "girly" is only insulting because they're not actually girls, so it's kind of saying "haha you fail at being a man"

like how most girls (IRL!!!!!) would get upset at being called "manly" for the same reasons

it's not about MISOGYNY HOLY SHIT, it's about associating the stereotypically negative traits of each gender to a person who isn't that gender

you don't call a girl manly if she's just expressing her opinion or in a position of authority, like you said that people do. you call a girl manly if she's exhibiting traits such as lack of concern for appearance/fashion and being untidy and unorganized or being really annoying and bossy and brash when they're talking, since those are traits stereotypically associated with men

i guess you could call people into sports "manly" though because sport is something that builds up your muscles and if you see a chick with like d-cup pecs you're all "whoa there"

UNLESS YOU'RE AKIMOTO SAYAKA
IN WHICH CASE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR MUSCLES IS A GIFT FROM WHICHEVER HIGHER POWER YOU BELIEVE IN

[(Anonymous)]

Girly-> girl-> child. And it's used to describe things that aren't cool. Manly-> Man-> adult. And it's used to describe things that are cool.

"you call a girl manly if she's exhibiting traits such as lack of concern for appearance/fashion and being untidy and unorganized or being really annoying and bossy and brash when they're talking" Do you really? How rude.

And seriously, why can't a woman be uninterested in fashion, messy, and assertive?

...Actually, there a ton of things bugging me about your comment, but I'm certain other anons will be along shortly.

*adds comprehension-fail note to princesoup's name*

[(Anonymous)]

I like this explanation.

[(Anonymous)]

The problem with everything you're saying is that it reinforces traditional gender roles in a way that implies "you're not the way we think you should be like and that's a bad thing"

the kind of attitude that gets boys beaten up for wanting to style their hair, and girls who play sports and don't cook get told they'll make terrible wives

[(Anonymous)]

Who "girly" is directly used against isn't the point. The problem is that its use as an insult reinforces stereotypical gender roles and the idea that women are inferior and you are inferior if you are like one in any way. It's not just guys who use it or have this mindset, and even if the specific word "girly" isn't used to insult women (though it is when someone is trying to infantilize a woman in an argument or something), women in our society still consider it an insult and consider feminine traits shameful to possess -- how many girls have you known who scramble to assure people that they're "not a girly-girl! I never played with Barbies! I like video games!!!" etc. etc.?

I've also never heard a woman called "manly" for any of the traits you just described, especially the bossiness, obnoxiousness or lack of concern for appearance. Those things get a woman called various permutations of "ugly" and "bitch".

[princesoup.livejournal.com]

Who "girly" is directly used against isn't the point. The problem is that its use as an insult reinforces stereotypical gender roles

of course using it as an insult is going to have negative consequences
that's the point of using it as an insult
to be negative

if you're not calling someone girly/manly to insult them, then you're just making casual banter like when your mates go "haha you're such a man" or "you'll need to change bathrooms soon lol"

oh but if you don't have friends then uh please try to at least envision the situation???

and the idea that women are inferior and you are inferior if you are like one in any way.

this would be a valid argument IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE FACT THAT WOMEN ALSO DISLIKE BEING CALLED MANLY

men dislike being called girly because they're not girls
women dislike being called manly because they're not men

the general majority of the female population would not take kindly to being seriously told that they're more of a man than a woman, just like the opposite is true for men

so taking your statement, since men dislike being called girly, feminine traits are seen as inferior
and since women dislike being called manly, masculine traits are seen as inferior

women in our society still consider it an insult and consider feminine traits shameful to possess --

you say "our society" but fuck me if where i live is anything like that

i see girls all the time walking about like OH MY GODDD I LOVE CLOOOTHES I'M SUCH A GIRLY-GIRL HAHAAA NIGHT OUT WITH MY GURLFRIENDS and shit because they are ~*proud of who they are*~

maybe if you said it to someone trying to be classy and high-brow in a formal gown it would be an insult, but otherwise...........

how many girls have you known who scramble to assure people that they're "not a girly-girl! I never played with Barbies! I like video games!!!" etc. etc.?

hahaha who the fuck would say that
omg
desperate bitches who need a lad in their lyfffff!!!!1 and make facebook statuses like SINGLE PRINGLE & READY TO MINGLE ON COD ;) and want to seem cool and going against the trend and take pictures of themselves doing ducklips with XBOX controllers on tumblr like YA I PLAY VIDYA GAMES maybe

if some girl came out and said that in my city friends would just leave her
or tell her to park her ass on a chair and simmer the fuck down

I've also never heard a woman called "manly" for any of the traits you just described, especially the bossiness, obnoxiousness or lack of concern for appearance. Those things get a woman called various permutations of "ugly" and "bitch".

yeah, by people who aren't their friends, and they're generic insults that everyone uses for everything

if a person you hated comes up to you all HI I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE FRIENDS WITH YOU HERE'S A MANSION I BOUGHT FOR YOU TO PROVE MY SINCERITY :) then walked off
you would be like "fucking bitch rubbing her wealth in my face like it makes her a better person"

[blitzs-fighters.livejournal.com]

I'm from the UK, I am regularly told I'm very feminine (which I have no problem with), but I would be a bit miffed if someone told me I was girly. Definitely has... childish connotations?

[blitzs-fighters.livejournal.com]

Oh look, somebody already said this ;p