[ SECRET POST #1835 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1835 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 61 secrets from Secret Submission Post #262.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

... did she do that? o.o

[(Anonymous)]

"Born This Way" -- ironically a song about acceptance of diversity -- referred to people being of "chola descent" or "orient-made."

"Chola" is a slur toward Latina and Hispanic women, implying sexual promiscuity, gang membership, and a violent temper. "Orient(al)" is a term that many of Asian descent find to be offensive because it originated from European imperialism, and still carries the connotation of a very European-centric view of the world ("orient" meaning "to the East of Europe").

I don't think I have to explain "drag" and "queen."

[(Anonymous)]

Wait wait wait, she used Chola in Born this Way?

...*runs off to double check lyric sites*

OH DOG DAMN IT LADY GAGA. My iPod has been clear of ethnic slurs since ever, and you freakin' ruin it! It's unlcean now.

*deletes song* And I really liked that one too. Sure, I had to ignore the Orient bit because I knew that was not PC, but going into straight out ethnic slurs is a whole other issue. Now I understand that person ranting about how Gaga doesn't get to 'reclaim' those words. For heavens sake, Chola doesn't even make sense! It isn't only ethnic, but it's sexist as well since it applies only to Hispanic women. If you needed a two-syllable word to describe a community 'latin' could have done ok, even if there is some debate about it.

Arrrrrgh ok, now I don't like Gaga even slightly. She is either clueless, or a complete sell-out.

(Also, did not know drag queen was insulting. Thought that had been reclaimed. Ah well, shows you just how out of touch I am with the LGBT community. *shrugs* 'Least I don't pretend to be the LGBT sponsor.)

[(Anonymous)]

As far as "drag queen" goes...reclaiming only works when someone from the minority it applies to is using it, though. A gay man referring to himself and his gay friends as "fags" is reclaimation. If a straight person calls him a "fag", it's still a slur.

Lady Gaga is not a sweet male transvestite, so "drag queen" isn't her word to reclaim, either.

I find it pretty appalling that she apologized for her use of "retarded" in a press release, but has yet to apologize for "chola."

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, I meant more 'reclaimed' as in 'it has been reclaimed for so long that it's ok now'. I can't remember the last time I heard a person use it negatively rather than just a quick descriptor. But like I said, not really a part of the LGBT scene despite being Bi myself. Whereas with the f word or the n word there is still a lot of fresh wounds about it and it is extensively known as bad, especially since it is still in the process of being reclaimed rather than already reclaimed. (AKA people still use it as a insult all over the place. A word is fully reclaimed when the insult version no longer is in use.)

And definitely agreed. Seriously, she should apologize for chola. If you know enough to know the word exists, you should know enough to know you should never use it. Yikes.

[(Anonymous)]

Not to defend Gaga, but chola is only sexist if you pretend cholo doesn't exist.

[(Anonymous)]

Except she only used Chola, and in a place where it really didn't need to be. Also, maybe my spanish is rusty, but isn't the masculine usually used as the gender-neutral if you are talking about a group with both men and women?

IDK, it's just a bizarre and stupid choice all around. Personally I find it perfectly ok to think both Chola and Cholo are sexist against their respective gender. *shrugs*

[fuchsiascreams.livejournal.com]

Maybe she didn't know? I mean, I'm biracial and I've been calling myself mulatto for years, and I had no idea that it was actually an offensive term.

[(Anonymous)]

I had no idea it was offensive. but i'm not american, so, dunno, maybe it's different over there.

[(Anonymous)]

Damn. You do it old school. I've only heard that word from period films.

[followthemoth.livejournal.com]

Matbe it's not offensive in the States?

I always thought it was an offensive term, but I heard people using it very casually when I went to the South, so I dunno.

I'm Canadian, btw.

[fuchsiascreams.livejournal.com]

Same, I'm also Canadian. But yeah, I mean, I had no idea that it was an offensive term until a couple of months ago, so.. it makes me wonder if maybe Lady Gaga wasn't aware, either?

[followthemoth.livejournal.com]

Probably. US and Canada are big enough countries for the language to be different depending on what State/Province you are in.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that "drag queen" was an acceptable term for male crossdressers? And that female crossdressers were likewise referred to as "drag kings"?
Is "crossdresser" preferred? Or something else, if you know?

[(Anonymous)]

See, this is what I thought. I never even knew that it was once a slur (or was it? Seriously, no clue here).

[(Anonymous)]

As far as I'm aware, "drag queen" is still used as a pejorative for an effeminate man, regardless of his orientation/gender identity.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

It would almost certainly be offensive in an inappropriate context, e.g. referring to a trans woman or a gay man who does not crossdress, and I know that "queen" by itself is something that maybe shouldn't be used by people who don't have the right to reclaim it for themselves. I was just under the impression that, in the way that "queer" is the appropriate term for somebody's orientation in certain circumstances even though it can be used offensively depending on context, that "drag queen"/"drag king" were the preferred terms when used in the proper way (specifically to refer to crossdressers).

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't really refer to crossdessers in general, though. In the appropriate context, it refers specifically to stage performers whose act includes crossdressing. When using it to describe a crossdresser who isn't a performer, it carries the connotation of flamboyance, glam, and attention-seeking, in much the same vein as "flaming" does for gay men.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. At my college, they held a "Drag Show" and called all performers "Drag Queens/Kings" as part of Pride Week.

[(Anonymous)]

"Orient(al)" is a term that many of Asian descent find to be offensive because it originated from European imperialism, and still carries the connotation of a very European-centric view of the world ("orient" meaning "to the East of Europe").

This is incorrect. Orient is an old word for "East", just East. In comparison, Europe was called the Occident which meant "West". It is derived from Latin, and is much older that traditional Imperialism.

Orient is a European word, and as long as you are speaking a European language, which you are, you will be using European-centric language. Do you say "India"? Well if you do, you're using Euro-centric language because that's not it's true name, we call it Bharat. So, if you want to stop being Euro-centric, stop speaking English all together.

For the record, I agree with you on "Orient" being an outdated word for the Asian people, but don't use false information to back-up your point.