fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1835 ]

[ SECRET POST #1835 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1835 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 61 secrets from Secret Submission Post #262.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

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I think there's a marked difference between "made some mistakes" and "used blatant racial/homophobic slurs toward her fans." Something she has yet to even acknowledge was wrong or say she's sorry for.

... did she do that? o.o

"Born This Way" -- ironically a song about acceptance of diversity -- referred to people being of "chola descent" or "orient-made."

"Chola" is a slur toward Latina and Hispanic women, implying sexual promiscuity, gang membership, and a violent temper. "Orient(al)" is a term that many of Asian descent find to be offensive because it originated from European imperialism, and still carries the connotation of a very European-centric view of the world ("orient" meaning "to the East of Europe").

I don't think I have to explain "drag" and "queen."

Wait wait wait, she used Chola in Born this Way?

...*runs off to double check lyric sites*

OH DOG DAMN IT LADY GAGA. My iPod has been clear of ethnic slurs since ever, and you freakin' ruin it! It's unlcean now.

*deletes song* And I really liked that one too. Sure, I had to ignore the Orient bit because I knew that was not PC, but going into straight out ethnic slurs is a whole other issue. Now I understand that person ranting about how Gaga doesn't get to 'reclaim' those words. For heavens sake, Chola doesn't even make sense! It isn't only ethnic, but it's sexist as well since it applies only to Hispanic women. If you needed a two-syllable word to describe a community 'latin' could have done ok, even if there is some debate about it.

Arrrrrgh ok, now I don't like Gaga even slightly. She is either clueless, or a complete sell-out.

(Also, did not know drag queen was insulting. Thought that had been reclaimed. Ah well, shows you just how out of touch I am with the LGBT community. *shrugs* 'Least I don't pretend to be the LGBT sponsor.)

As far as "drag queen" goes...reclaiming only works when someone from the minority it applies to is using it, though. A gay man referring to himself and his gay friends as "fags" is reclaimation. If a straight person calls him a "fag", it's still a slur.

Lady Gaga is not a ~~sweet~~ male transvestite, so "drag queen" isn't her word to reclaim, either.

I find it pretty appalling that she apologized for her use of "retarded" in a press release, but has yet to apologize for "chola."

Ah, I meant more 'reclaimed' as in 'it has been reclaimed for so long that it's ok now'. I can't remember the last time I heard a person use it negatively rather than just a quick descriptor. But like I said, not really a part of the LGBT scene despite being Bi myself. Whereas with the f word or the n word there is still a lot of fresh wounds about it and it is extensively known as bad, especially since it is still in the process of being reclaimed rather than already reclaimed. (AKA people still use it as a insult all over the place. A word is fully reclaimed when the insult version no longer is in use.)

And definitely agreed. Seriously, she should apologize for chola. If you know enough to know the word exists, you should know enough to know you should never use it. Yikes.

Not to defend Gaga, but chola is only sexist if you pretend cholo doesn't exist.

Except she only used Chola, and in a place where it really didn't need to be. Also, maybe my spanish is rusty, but isn't the masculine usually used as the gender-neutral if you are talking about a group with both men and women?

IDK, it's just a bizarre and stupid choice all around. Personally I find it perfectly ok to think both Chola and Cholo are sexist against their respective gender. *shrugs*

Maybe she didn't know? I mean, I'm biracial and I've been calling myself mulatto for years, and I had no idea that it was actually an offensive term.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-01-12 10:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-01-12 11:47 (UTC) - Expand

I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that "drag queen" was an acceptable term for male crossdressers? And that female crossdressers were likewise referred to as "drag kings"?
Is "crossdresser" preferred? Or something else, if you know?

See, this is what I thought. I never even knew that it was once a slur (or was it? Seriously, no clue here).

As far as I'm aware, "drag queen" is still used as a pejorative for an effeminate man, regardless of his orientation/gender identity.

(no subject)

megalomaniageek.livejournal.com - 2012-01-12 04:59 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-01-12 05:29 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah. At my college, they held a "Drag Show" and called all performers "Drag Queens/Kings" as part of Pride Week.

"Orient(al)" is a term that many of Asian descent find to be offensive because it originated from European imperialism, and still carries the connotation of a very European-centric view of the world ("orient" meaning "to the East of Europe").

This is incorrect. Orient is an old word for "East", just East. In comparison, Europe was called the Occident which meant "West". It is derived from Latin, and is much older that traditional Imperialism.

Orient is a European word, and as long as you are speaking a European language, which you are, you will be using European-centric language. Do you say "India"? Well if you do, you're using Euro-centric language because that's not it's true name, we call it Bharat. So, if you want to stop being Euro-centric, stop speaking English all together.

For the record, I agree with you on "Orient" being an outdated word for the Asian people, but don't use false information to back-up your point.

where and when did this happen

serious question, I don't keep up with celebrity gossip so this is news to me

I guess they're referring to Lady Gaga using "orient" in Born This Way. I don't know about the other thing.

As someone whose first language isn't English, I'd like to ask whether is the term only offensive in America? Or is it offensive in other (English speaking) countries, but only when applied to people?

Yeah, I'm referring to the use of "orient" and especially "chola" in the lyrics of "Born This Way", with special mention for "drag/queen" as well.

"Chola" is used mostly used in the U.S. as a slur toward Hispanic/Latina women, but "orient" is considered offensive in many English-speaking countries, with special regard to the United States and United Kingdom because of their historical track records in East Asia.

It's offensive where people are offended by it.

Orient is a weird case. I've encountered people who are really offended by it, but then again I also know people that identify as Oriental and are actually quite miffed at the idea that some people consider it offensive.

Asian chick here. I don't it's offensive. It sounds weird as hell applying it to people (I think of oriental = a rug or or something), but I never considered it a slur.

That's mostly what I'd heard but I stay away from it because it sounds so fifties racist to me.

Nope, in the UK Orient isn't offensive. Although it is usually used for food/products from Asia, I've heard it used to describe people and no-one's been offended.

I'm Asian-American and I find it offensive, although it's not on par with, say, "chink." IMO it's like the Asian version of "negro", i.e. words that used to be considered acceptable but then fell out of favor because of their racist implications. "Chink" otoh would be more on par with the n-word, i.e. both are straight-up slurs.

And yeah, I've heard people defending Lady Gaga's use of the word "orient" because it's supposedly not offensive in the UK - which I can't comment on since I'm not from there, but I've heard disagreement about whether it is or isn't - but even if that's true, then it doesn't even apply here because Lady Gaga's American.

Edited 2012-01-12 14:36 (UTC)

it's like the Asian version of "negro"

This is always what I've told people when someone is asking me about why 'oriental' is/can be an offensive term. I was recently talking to my mother about what acceptable terms were acceptable for black people in the 1960s, and Negro was the most common one that cropped up. I can't think of anyone calling her that nowadays, but if you look at material from that time, that's what was used.

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