fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1837 ]

[ SECRET POST #1837 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1837 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02. [broken link]

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03.

[Robin Of Sherwood/Michael Praed]

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04.

[Glee]

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05.

[We Got Married - Ga In (Brown Eyed Girls)/Jo Kwon (2AM)]

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06.

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07.

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08.

[Buzz Lightyear of Star Command]

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09. http://i.imgur.com/8DbqS.png
[linked for nudity/kind of porny]

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10.

[Josh Groban and Andrea Bocelli]

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11.

[Beast Wars, Megatron]

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12.

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13.

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14.

[Magic Mike]

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15.

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16. [repeat]

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17.

[Harry Potter & Little House on the Prairie]

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18.

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19.

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20.

[X-Men: First Class]

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21.

[Death Note]

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22.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

25. [SPOILERS for something, OP did not specify]

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26. [SPOILERS for Vampire Hunter D]

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27. [SPOILERS for Christmas Doctor Who and New Year's Sherlock]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

28. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
[SPOILERS for Loveless]

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29. [TRIGGER WARNING for abuse]

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30. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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31. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape, animal cruelty]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #262.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I would call Moffat VERY SUBTLE when comparing his stories to RTD, who would beat you over the head with the message, then do it again with trumpets blaring, angels singing, music swelling, fire exploding and rain falling all the same time. I'll take Moffat's semi-subtle over THAT any day. Moffat has a ton of problems. A TON. I will not deny that. But he's still a much better, more coherent storyteller than RTD. (At least on average; I do like some of RTDs stories, and I do hate some of Moffat's. And this is saying nothing of characters, because I think RTD comes up with better characters than Moffat.)

But I'd still pick Moffat over RTD. It's sort of the lesser of two evils, but a lot of people probably don't see it that way. They just see what ridiculous, over the top, incoherent, often masturbatory stuff RTD put out, and react twice as happy for the breathe of cool, fresh, sane air that is Moffat. The moment at the end of the most recent Christmas special, where the Doctor wipes his eyes and smiles, but doesn't repeat the whole "human's crying, lol" line is a perfect example. He isn't beating the audience over the head with that any more. He lets you connect the dots. Compare that to David Tennant bawling like an immature baby during his regeneration going, "I DUN WANNA LEAVE" AFTER we've had like a twenty minute segment of him tearfully saying goodbye to every companion he ever had (something that has never been done for any Doctor ever). We get it. ~~RTD~~ The Doctor doesn't want to leave. You don't need to beat us over the head with it for two hours...

But hey, those are just, like my thoughts, man. Believe what you want.

(I agree that Moffat needs some help on writing characters, but most of his stories are okay.)

idk, Moffat beats us over the head with timey-wimey plots. And the whole "timey-wimey" "Humany-woomany" stuff. I feel like both have their flaws, so at a certain point it's a matter of preference. I can easily forgive over the top from RTD, but the gender issues Moffat's Who raised bother me so much, but that's just my personal trigger that makes me frustrated at something.

OMG I hate humany-womany so much I can't even tell you.

Me too. And for the most part I enjoyed that Christmas special. Mostly if I ignore humany-womany and the gender issues.

Funny how you mention "repeating lines," because that was one of the only times Moffat's had a line that wasn't repeated to the point of irritation. See: "Hello Sweetie," "____ are cool," "I know," etc.

That's his obsession with "catch phrases" though, which can be annoying, but isn't attempting to be subtle or over the top at least.

Bowties. Are. Cool.

I'm sorry. With Moffat, I can go back, rewatch episodes, and see the goddamn "aha" moment where I see how it subtly hints at the ending. When you watch back over his episodes, he spoils you for what's about to happen. Not like you'd notice, but he does--and you can see it in the arcs.

Meanwhile, RTD would treat you like a goddamn idiot who couldn't appreciate his work unless he threw it in your face.

~~Also, RTD slapped you with how human the Doctor was as opposed to Moffat who keeps in mind he's a damn alien~~

I'll take RTD's sometimes explosive but good (and often, I think, more subtle than people give him credit for, but of course not always) episodes over Moffat's misogynistic, homophobic, recycled, badly-written crap any day of the week.

Moffat is a known and blatant misogynist, is homophobic, and recycles not only his own plots but from everything else (including a ton from RTD's era, seen especially well in DW s5). I think I'll take a little extra drama and explosiveness over that, no question.

Yeah, I think RTD was more subtle sometimes than people give him credit for. And like, idek, but "Midnight" is some BRILLIANT writing. RTD could be great. I mean, he had some duds in there too- I'm looking at you, "Love and Monsters" and "The Next Doctor, but RTD really doesn't get enough credit for how GOOD his writing could be even with the huge finales he did some good stuff. Like the series 3 finale has some really interesting religious imagery (Martha as the Doctor's disciple who walks the earth spreading the gospel and the more obvious Doctor resurrection imagery) which tied in wonderfully with the larger themes of forgiveness and redemption between the Doctor and the Master. And that in turn goes back to how the Doctor who had lost so much was unwilling to lose anybody else- even his long standing enemy.

Definitely agreed. "Midnight" is one of my favorite episodes, it was amazing IMO. And I just loved so many of RTD's episodes and thought the writing was pretty incredibly a lot of times. As you said, sometimes not so good, but a lot of times much better than he's given credit for.

It irks me a lot to see people go on and on about how awful RTD is and then say they love Moffat. Who is great at snappy dialogue but terrible at everything else - including but not limited to being a decent human being and writing in a way that reflects that. His misogyny in particular is so grossly obvious that even if he didn't recycle plots (his own, RTD's, and others), only pretend to care if his stories make any sense, or fail so completely at characterization that his characters may as well be cardboard cut-outs, I still can't imagine enjoying his work at all, though. So...

You know how I agree with your opinions? Well, I still do. :D

+1 to all this. You just said everything I was going to say but, y'know, coherently.

I personally usually connect over-the-top, ridiculous and incoherent with Moffat. I'm looking at you season 6 and River ~~minus the Doctor's Wife and The Girl Who Waited~~. I would add - hugely and unnecesarily convoluted to the list as well.

Really agreed. I think people associate RTD with "flashy" and "over-the-top" just because of the series 3 and 4 finales. The rest of his work was, for the most part, very good at subtlety and restraint, IMO.

Moffat, on the other hand, is all about the shiny, all about spelling it all out (I don't want to think of how many times I must've shouted "SHOW, DON'T TELL" at my screen during the whole River.. bullshit), all about making it so big and convoluted and incoherent and flashy that nobody looks too deeply to see if it all makes any sense (which it doesn't).

One just needs to compare Bad Wolf or missing planets or Saxon to THE CRACK and WHO IS ~~RIVER SONG~~ THE IMPOSSIBLE ASTRONAUT. I always found RTD's storyarch clues definitely more subtle.

LOL yeah, I gave up on 'show, don't tell' with Moffat. It's not gonna happen. Not with episodes he writes, anyway.

Also, icon!twins. :D

oh GOD the crack. I don't have any issue with that storyline, but you honestly can't pretend that was subtle. At all.

Honestly, I preferred Moffat's mention of the Crack to RTD's Bad Wolf/missing planets since it incorporated the plot element into the storylines that led up to the finale rather than inserting a bunch of random Easter eggs that could've really meant anything.

However, I'll also say that I liked the way "Torchwood" and "Saxon" were dealt with better than Moffat's arcs, and I'd rather have a small lead-in to a BIG FINALE than a super-hyped lead-in that ultimately fails to deliver. In short:

Torchwood/Saxon = great
Bad Wolf/planets/Crack = pretty entertaining
WHO IS THE IMPOSSIBLE ASTRONAUT??!! = OH GOD WHY DID YOU THINK THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA

I understand where you're coming from but I personally always prefered searching for Bad Wolf signs in every episode and loved the off-hand mentions of Torchwood/Saxon/missing planets and especially in the last two episodes when it all becomes clear why we saw those things during all of the series and why they're important.

But the camera zooming in on the crack with ominous music in the background in every. freakin'. episode. became annoying very fast. We get it. It's important. Plus, it's was at times nonsensical. Rory barely tounches the thing and gets erased from history, yet the Doctor pushes his whole hand in the actual crack and ... nothing happens. And then in the end... it doesn't even get explained. Sure, the Tardis exploding caused the crack (?) but why did the Tardis even explode?? Who did it? And how/when?

Completely agreed on the Impossible astronaus and the Doctor ~dying.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1837 ]

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