[ SECERT POST #1846 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1846 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 110 secrets from Secret Submission Post #.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Disney adaptions have never been completely true to their original stories, real or not, so I don't know why this continues to surprise people.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Disney adaptions have never been completely true to their original stories

I think you mean, "no movie in the history of films have ever been completely true to their original stories".

Honestly, I wish people would stop ragging on Disney for doing the same thing every movie company does.
/icon very related

[(Anonymous)]

The difference between Pocahontas and HTTYD is that Pocahontas has a RL background while HTTYD is just a made up story about fantasy creatures.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't have icons for Braveheart, The Last Samurai, A Beautiful Mind, 21, or JFK...

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

Ugh, Braveheart.

[(Anonymous)]

But you said your icon was related and it was HTTYD, so excuse me if I address HTTYD.

Also, who said I thought those movies were flawless?
Well, at least A Beautiful Mind didn't turn genocide into a magical musical with talking trees (but will they age?) ;)

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Also, who said I thought those movies were flawless?

No one. But do you get the point I'm trying to make?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, at least A Beautiful Mind didn't turn genocide into a magical musical with talking trees (but will they age?) ;)

Oh. I forgot that Pocahontas was about the entire history between native Americans and colonists, instead of just one historical event.

[childings.livejournal.com]

I think maybe this is a bit different because it's the first time Disney did a movie that kind of ... spit in the face of the history of oppression of indigenous people in North America. Also I can't think of any other animated movies they've done right off hand that dealt directly with actual HISTORY and not just a fictional story. The story of Pocahontas wasn't a fairy tale

[i-paint-the-sky.livejournal.com]

The story of Pocahontas wasn't a fairy tale

Well, that's actually a bit debatable. Or at least how true John Smith's version of the events are is questionable, to say the least.

[otakugal15.livejournal.com]

But, Disney based the movie off the LEGEND of Pocahontas. Not the actual HISTORY, which in and of itself is suspect.

It's why I can watch the film with out getting too cringy.

[otakugal15.livejournal.com]

...I never said I was dismissing them? I'm just saying that's how /I'm/ able to deal with the movie. I didn't say it wasn't problematic. :/

[kindlycoyote.livejournal.com]

This.

I just... I can't watch it. I have some of the songs on my ipod, I love inter-racial/cultural romances, Pocahontas rocks, this should be a great movie for me! Except since it is based on actual history of a oppressed race, and buys into the bull that is John Smith's reports, it makes me die a little on the inside whenever I try and watch it now.

Not to mention the 'Native Americans all all uber magical with nature' trope. My god, that trope. Seriously dudes, at this time Europeans were also claiming to see spirits, angels and faerie. Why do writers constantly make it like white people always ~lost touch with the spiritual world~? Or that Native Americans are somehow more ~mystical~ than the rest of the human race? It is white washing history and is kinda insulting in a weird way to both sides.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

As annoying as that trope is, it was a common place in European writing at the time. And it became more common as Capitalism advanced and wiped out the old land-based lifestyle. At least in England, I'm not sure in other countries, but France had something similar, if my memory serves me well.

[kindlycoyote.livejournal.com]

Wait, do you mean 'discovery of America' time, or 'When the movie was made' time? If it's the first, that doesn't excuse Disney to me, and if it is the second then it makes me sad but still a little more bearable.

Honestly, it just makes me roll my eyes a bit because over a hundred years later people like G.K. Chesterton talk about the superstitions of the Irish and so on. And it is a trope that people still take all to seriously today. It also doesn't help that I read a essay that a Chieftain wrote about the New Agers who claimed that they were reincarnated from Native Americans, and that the Native American way was closer to nature and 'superior', him essentially slamming them by saying it was a product of their white guilt as if they really wanted a closeness to nature their own ancestors of the European tribes had their own traditions.

...So yeah. I just, the trope is not one I can ever really read without my eyes rolling, whatever the era. I can excuse earlier works and not get all judgey on them, I still just can't stand 'em.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

I mean in the 16th century. This idea is clear in most (if not all) of the chronicles of the period, so I can't be too surprised at it. Why Disney accepted it and continued it, that's something I don't know. And, not being American or being knowledgeable in American history, I can't try to understand it, either.

[kindlycoyote.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a sticky issue. I read a lot about it because of some old childhood friends who were part Native American, so issues pertaining to that has always fascinated me. There is a lot of vicious back-and-forth which is mostly swept under the rug by politicians. Heck, most Americans don't know much about it! (Which is actually kind of sad, as I think as far as Native American history goes a lot of Americans just know Pocahontas, Sacajawea, Squanto, and maybe Sitting Bull and that is about it.)

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

I'm into European history, so I really can't say a thing. I only learnt about Pocahontas trough Disney and then looking her up in an encyclopaedia.

[meadowphoenix]

In the answer to your first question: both. "Civilized" cultures make a point of over-magifying the Other since forever.

[(Anonymous)]

You are an unparalleled killjoy.

[childings.livejournal.com]

To be fair, it was a pretty shitty movie in other respects too

Also sorry to ruin your fun by reminding you of America's horrible history of genocide

[(Anonymous)]

This one stands out as worse to me because it's presumably based off of a historical event, not a folktale like most of Disney's other movies, and on top of that it comes from a part of history that was full of unspeakable horrors that tend to get glossed over even in classrooms.

Not saying that no one should ever watch or enjoy Pocahontas, but it is understandable to be upset (and, in OP's case, shocked) by it.