[ SECRET POST #1892 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1892 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[How I Met Your Mother]


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03.
[White Collar]


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04.
[Smash]


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05.
[How I Met Your Mother]


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06.
[Revenge]


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07.
[The Hunger Games]


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08.
[Yu-Gi-Oh]


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09.
[White Collar]


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10.
[Obscurus Lupa, Subspecies]


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11.
[Castleville]


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12.
[Gintama]


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13.
[The Cat Returns]


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14.
[Mythbusters]


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15.
[Invasion of the Body Snatchers]


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16.
[Titanic]


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17.
[All Dogs go to Heaven]


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18.
[Hatoful Boyfriend]


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19.
[Pokemon]


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20.
[Phantom of the Opera]


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21.
[The Middle]


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22.
[life on mars]


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23.
[Scrubs]


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24.
[A Goofy Movie]


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25.
[Nerimon/Alex Day]


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26.
[Katie McGrath]


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27.
[Chuck]


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28.
[Top Chef Season 9]


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29.
[The Vampire Diaries]


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30.
[The Vampire Diaries]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 045 secrets from Secret Submission Post #270.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that context does play a big part in the decisions that people make, and that societal pressure and misogyny are a big part of that context for women. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I do have a problem when people approach issues from this viewpoint, and then instead of using it to target the issues within our society that create this context, use it as license to essentially judge others and try to convince them that, because their choices are not the choices that they would make personally, they're wrong or anti-feminist. The idea of coming into someone's life and essentially telling them that their choices are somehow wrong because of what you, as someone who is not that person, believe are the circumstances that influenced said choices, has always seemed kind of shitty to me. Obviously, not all feminists who take this stance do that, but there are some, which I think is part of the reason why so many other people in the feminist community place such an emphasis on choice.

(Not saying you do any of this yourself. I've just seen it before - for everything from a woman being a stay at home mom or a sex worker to having an interest in fashion or other so-called "vapid" pursuits - and it never fails to bother me.)

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

This bothers me too. I don't like many "traditionally girly" things, but you know what? Just because I hate them and sometimes even find them vapid, doesn't mean that I'm allowed to police what other people enjoy, particularly writing it off as "You don't really like that, society only tells you you should."

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly! I've seen so many people write off women who are more traditionally "feminine" in their interests, clothing, etc. as vapid or chalk their behaviour and choices up to them being "unenlightened", and then typically claim they're being a jerk to people "for their own good". It's a bit too paternalistic for my tastes, honestly.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Haha! I do find some of the choices vapid in the same way I find video games vapid. ;) However that falls under the "Playing with the gravel on the side of the road of life."

However, implying that it's not their free choice is just so dehumanizing.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

So true! And there is a lot of assumption that goes into that. How do you know the difference between a woman making a "fully-informed" choice vs one that's not? You don't.

There are issues with choice feminism, but that doesn't mean it's wholly wrong, or that the other side of the issue doesn't need to step back and re-evaluate themselves on occasion. Especially those who think making other people feel shitty is the right way to go about building equality.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

How do you know the difference between a woman making a "fully-informed" choice vs one that's not? You don't.

Exactly! I also hate the idea that somehow women are incapable of doing the research they need for themselves.

There are issues with choice feminism

There are some issues with choice feminism, but the good thing about it is that it doesn't take away choices or rights from anyone. There are valid questions for things like "Why are more women choosing to be nurses?" The answer may be inertia (in which case shaming the women who choose it in part due to cultural exceptions is only pissing off female nurses who are generally happy with their choice) or the answer may be a tendency of being female (and again, questioning it just pisses off female nurses).

I think it's far, far better to assume women are capable of making their own choices, and give them the right to make decisions without it being questioned due to gender. And yes, this goes for women policing to make sure other women make the "right" choice.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's far, far better to assume women are capable of making their own choices, and give them the right to make decisions without it being questioned due to gender.

Totally and completely agree. Feminism is about procuring rights for women, but choice is an important part of that. I think women, as individuals, should think about possible influences on the decisions they make, but as individuals and not with someone else coming in and telling them how to do so or judging whether or not the outcome of their decision making process falls into some preconceived notion of right or wrong. Which I think is where a lot of people lose sight of things.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I think women, as individuals, should think about possible influences on the decisions they make, but as individuals and not with someone else coming in and telling them how to do so or judging whether or not the outcome of their decision making process falls into some preconceived notion of right or wrong.

I figure most women do that already as it's part of being an adult, and I'd rather assume they do than assume they don't. Also, even if something is influencing them, what difference does that make? If they're happy with the decision, they should be allowed make it, no matter what the reason. (Now the influences themselves may be an issue, but that's the potential problem, not the women who make choices under the influences.)

Personally I'll probably disagree with a lot of choices they do make, but that's neither here nor there.

(frozen comment)

[herongale]

Oh, I agree that it's actually totally shitty to question any individual woman on her choices.

For me, I think it's more that I think the emphasis in feminist activism should be fighting for equal access and equal rights more than anything else. Being able to make choices for yourself is important, and should be supported for all women, but when it comes towards what to fight for... well, I think that fighting for rights ends up being a lot more concrete, the outcomes a lot more easily measured.

Like, when it comes to abortion, the important thing to fight for is the right to be able to have abortions legally and safely. In terms of whether any given woman will choose to do so, that's still going to be up to her. It bothers me that women can still be pressured into having/not having abortions by family and friends, but I think the way to combat that is to ensure that women can have as much financial autonomy and privacy as possible so as to protect their right to make the decision without coercion.

So things like the right to eduction, the right to work and receive equal pay, the right to safety from harassment, the right to divorce, the right to contraception.... ensuring that all those rights and more are in place are what we can do to protect free choice. What we should NOT be doing is questioning women about the choices they do make.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

It depends on the choice. In the secret OP's case, if she wants to marry someone who is violent, controlling, and abusive just because he has money? You better believe I'm going to question her choice. Possibly her sanity, too.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

You should question her choices! No women's choices are above questioning; however, there's a difference between saying "This is a stupid choice for reasons x, y, and z" and saying "This is an unfeminist choice."

(frozen comment)

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with this. 100%.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

This is actually exactly what I was getting at in my comment, and you've summed up a lot of the problem I have with the whole "Feminism is not about choice!" issue. Feminism is not just about choice, but both the ability to make your own choices and the rights that ensure that women are not limited in their options when making said choices are important parts of the fight for equality.

Some of the people doing said criticism, unlike yourself, either a) take their argument to the extreme and essentially strip women of all agency by assuming that women (and people in general) can't put some level of thought into the choices they make without someone else telling them to do so and b) forget to go beyond their own rhetoric and actually target the issues in society that might limit the options that a woman has when making said choices. It's okay to say that feminism is not just about choice, but it doesn't give people license to be a jerk to other women who make decisions that don't fall in line with their own personal morals. Or to imply that women are incapable of making sound decisions without someone stepping in to point out how and why their choices are wrong. If I don't need a man to step in and guide my choices in the "right" direction, I don't need another woman to do so, either, no matter how good the intentions behind that might be.

(I'm preaching to the choir here, but it just really gets my goat when people use feminism (or social justice on a larger scale) as an excuse to be a jerk to others. Apparently I needed to vent...)