[ SECRET POST #1895 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1895 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 147 secrets from Secret Submission Post #271.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[visp.livejournal.com]

I have no idea. If she shows up here on the board to confirm that she is and explain why, I'll tell you what I think of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't dodge the question. If she ships Sansan (and it's pretty clear that she does given her comments elsewhere) is she, in your eyes, an apologist for pedophilia and misogyny herself?

[visp.livejournal.com]

I wasn't dodging, I was giving an honest answer. If you really want my thoughts on it, link to the quote of what she said.

[(Anonymous)]

She hasn't explained why she likes Sansan, she's just indicated that she does. She even gave a shout-out to "Sansan lovers" (her words) in her DVD commentary.

So again...does that make her a pedophila/abusive relationship apologist for shipping them?

[visp.livejournal.com]

And again, it's like you're trying your hardest not to give me enough info on this, but given what you said, I'd say it makes her a 15-year-old who's giving a shout-out to her fans. Face it, SanSan shippers are sorta her main fanbase, so she's not going to alienate them. So yeah, a few things wrong with it, but again, at 15, I'm not expecting the full Robert Patterson-levels of awareness and I perfectly understand playing to her fanbase.

Also, it's entirely possible that she just means that she likes the actual dynamic of their relationship, because, as an actress, she finds it nuanced and interesting and far more complex than most anything else she'd be portraying on TV at her age.

[(Anonymous)]

And you seem trying your hardest not to answer the question. If Sophie is a fan of Sansan, does that make her an apologist for pedophilia, misogyny or abusive relationships? Yes or no?

Sophie also posted this on Facebook.

[visp.livejournal.com]

I answered the question in 2 paragraphs in the last post! You can't keep trying to get the answer you want by ignoring the answers I give.

But again, and with even more explaining:

No, if:
She just means that she likes the actual dynamic of their relationship, especially because, as an actress, she finds it nuanced and interesting and far more complex than most anything else she'd be portraying on TV at her age.

She's just saying that she likes working with that actor

if by "giving a shout-out to SanSan" she's just essentially saying hi to her fans.

Yes, but she's 15, so I don't judge her by adult standards of "what a person should understand" if:

She's actually said that she's read the books and thinks that the whole "they're so romantic together" idea is cool. (You have shown me no actual proof of this, btw, so I'm not saying this is what she believes.)

[(Anonymous)]

So if Sophie was older she'd be a pedophilia/abusive relationships-advocating misogynist? Is that what you're saying?

And by extension, are you saying that all fans who ship Sansan are apologists for pedophilia, abusive relationships and misogyny? Just want to know where you're standing from.

[visp.livejournal.com]

Just want to know where you're standing from.

No, you're trying to find a way to ignore what I say in favor of a gross generalization that you can feel justifiably butthurt about. I've repeatedly explained to you many ways that someone can like the dynamic between Sansa and Sandor without trying to justify the inherent problems in that relationship (the age problem, the abuse, the misogyny, etc.).

[(Anonymous)]

And you're dodging the question again.

If someone ships Sansan and aren't just appreciative of their dynamic because of it's interesting, but actually likes the pairing in a romantic sense...as many fans do, including Sophie...are they advocates for pedophilia and misogyny?

Yes? Or no?

[(Anonymous)]

*because it's

[visp.livejournal.com]

I never said "advocates." And I'm not "dodging" your questions, I'm just trying to point out that they are inherently flawed and then trying to give an answer that actually works, and then you sulk and ask an even more flawed question. Stop making up no-win broad statements in order to frame everything the way you want it and actually look at what I'm saying.

The "San/San" relationship has problems with pedophilia (even in the aged-up version she's still prepubescent) and Sandor certainly has problems with abusive behavior and misogyny. You cannot ignore or romanticize these issues without being in some way an apologist for them. That doesn't mean that a 15-year-old actress giving a shout-out to her fans is satan, or even one of your fandom shippers.

[(Anonymous)]

No Sansan fan has denied that their relationship is fucked up. That doesn't mean they're "apologists" for pedophilia or misogyny (and Sandor's hardly a misogynist, he's more of a misanthrope if you have to label him as he pretty much hates everything in the world).

By your own logic, fauxkaren is an apologist for rapists by shipping Spike with Buffy.

You have been dodging questions by the virtue of trying to change the topic and not answering straight up whether or not you consider Sophie Turner to be an apologist for pedophilia and misogyny if she romantically shipped the two characters.

[visp.livejournal.com]

Christ...

I'm not even sure if you're trolling or dense at this point. Whatever. If you're actually just dense, go up to the "Yes if..." and "No if..." and figure out which one of the sub-options comes closest to what you're trying to ask.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I saw that you trying to move away by going "Welllll...Sophie's 15 and she's just trying to appease the fans" as opposed to saying, "Yes, if Sophie Turner ships Sansan, then she is an apologist for pedophilia and misogyny" which is what you accused the OP of being for defending the Sansan ship.

If that's what you believe, then say "Sophie Turner is an apologist for pedophilia and misogyny if she ships Sandor and Sansa" and I'll drop the matter.

[visp.livejournal.com]

Since you're apparently unable to understand words and I generally don't argue on Fandom!Secrets for longer than a day, I will simply repeat: Go to the "Yes if:" and "No if:" Really, there's a paragraph under each.

You can't just keep saying "If it's not red, is it purple or green," and accuse people of dodging when they try and explain that there's more than 3 colors out there.

[(Anonymous)]

I saw that post and you still didn't answer "If Sophie romantically ships Sansan, does that mean she's an apologist for misogony and pedophilia?"

Again, that's what you accused Sansan fans (and by extension Sophie as well) of being just for defending their ship. Own up to your opinions.

It's a simple "Yes/No" answer. Not a lot of wiggle-room.