[ SECRET POST #1901 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1901 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 150 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[justspaz.livejournal.com]

Thanks, this explains things well. He's obviously a really opinionated guy but one who isn't the best at articulating things. Like, I could not have articulated my responses as coherently as you, so again, thanks!

Also, I don't know what kind of flack I'm going to get for this, but I feel I have a higher tolerance for statements like this, and things that Steven Moffat says, than other people. Like, as a queer woman and strong feminist, am I happy about the things Moffat says sometimes, or how he writes things? No, and I do get angry sometimes, but I still don't hate him or anything. I sincerely believe he is a good person, with bad views and shitty ideas, but still I can accept him because I admire his work and such. Same with Martin.

I see a lot of hateful things sometimes, things that make me feel totally insignificant, despised, from people who hate me just because of who I am and who I love, and that makes me livid, it makes me want to fight down everything and change society completely, or sometimes when it gets bad enough just leave and start my own little island community or something. And, I'm DEFINITELY not speaking for everyone especially those without the other privileges I have (able-bodied, white, etc), but I just can't find it in myself to rage against things said in ignorance and privilege but without malicious intent. I know this probably means I'll been seen as not truly involved in the causes or such, but it is just what I feel.

[piepeloe.livejournal.com]

I think I get what you're saying and I agree.

I feel it's more like they're really bad at giving interviews and thinking before they speak than that they're bad people. That lack of consideration and thought probably does come from privilege, but there are worse things in the world. If it got out that they refused to work with/vote for/live next to minorities, I'd be freaking pissed. If they had been nasty when a friend or family member came out to them as gay, I'd be furious.

But they're not evil, they probably even mean well.

[justspaz.livejournal.com]

Yeah, definitely.

I could never be a celebrity because if I had to give interviews they would be rambling disasters with tons of really awkward pauses which I would try to fill well but fail miserably at. I also honestly believe that people who say things badly, even if they aren't being awkward but more ignorant, can learn from their mistakes. Not all people, and some obviously don't want to learn, but I'm sure if someone was like "this hurt me, because xyz" to Freeman or such, he'd understand and not deride them for being sensitive or something.

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

I feel the same way. I used to be one of those Intent Doesn't Matter people and I was so busy being pissed off all the time I had no time for my life.

Yeah, people can be hurtful without intending it. But there are so many people in the world who do intend it that I really don't think going after the ones who don't is the best ordering of priorities.

[justspaz.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've said unintentionally hurtful things before, in LJ comments and to my friends/family, but I realize I'm wrong and learn from my mistakes, and people accept that, so I gotta share it around. And I definitely agree about those who do intend to be more of an issue. By focusing on them, ideally it will educate those who don't intend, and then you get two for the price of one.

[(Anonymous)]

I've absorbed so much of the Intent Doesn't matter/It's Not My Job To Educate You rhetoric over the years that I'm usually afraid to say anything at all. I feel like such a douche for not being able to speak up without just repeating what others have already said once I've seen that their words have been approved.

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

Eh, fuck it. No single ideology is ever completely applicable in all situations.

[cloud-riven.livejournal.com]

Personally I just don't think it's fair to go off at someone simply for wording something in an unfortunate way. I do think Freeman had the best intentions, but getting pissed because he's speaking from a privileged pov? The most I'm going to muster for that is a raised eyebrow, and hope they keep educating themselves. I don't think people should shy away from discussing race or quiltbag issues or whatever just because they might be judged for discussing something "off bounds", and I don't see the benefit of villainizing any potential ally (in person, online, wherever). I'm not saying all things are cool, like a straight person speaking on behalf of a queer person, but the more people we can welcome to discuss it, the less taboo and accepted it'll become. Well, I think so anyways.

And you know what? I have a love/hate thing going on with Moffat's work, and I'll be the first to jump around like a loon and go all, "LOOK AT HIS PLOT HOLES. WTF IS RIVER/IRENE???", but there's a difference between being a problematic person and having problematic storytelling. He might not be the most well-read guy on Feminism 101, but he writes what he likes, and that's fine imo. Moffat can put his foot in his mouth ("I'm not sexist. YOU'RE sexist" lol), but he's not making a specific effort to demean folk. Hell, that he's okay with being upfront about what he thinks is refreshing. I wouldn't mind buying him a beer 8|

[justspaz.livejournal.com]

Eyebrow raising is the best in these situations, definitely (although I've never practically mastered it, so it is an internal raise for me). And no, definitely not. I want allies, I want people who want to fight and make changes even if it doesn't directly benefit them, but because it is common decency. There isn't enough of that in the world. There are limits, definitely, but still, go forth and help, as long as they leave certain things to actual LGBTQ/POC/etc.

I actually love Moffat's stuff, a lot (even series 6...all of it!), so yeah, I wish he wasn't so off color on some things, but I respect his work still.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. I think it's good to point out to people when they say shit that's unintentionally hurtful or ignorant, but that isn't coming from a hateful place. But I'd rather save actually being pissed off for people who say things out of spite and hatred and with the intent to hurt others.

[justspaz.livejournal.com]

Yes. I'd rather not be pissed off all the time, but save up my anger and activism for those who 'deserve' it. Otherwise I'd probably have extremely high blood pressure.

[darkmanifest.livejournal.com]

but I just can't find it in myself to rage against things said in ignorance and privilege but without malicious intent.

I agree, to an extent. There is no way to judge intent - innocuous words may hide deep-seated hatred, horrible words may be completely insincere - and because of that I prefer to save my rage until the person either digs their grave deeper or drops the shovel and recants. I don't like the tendency to leap at someone whose mouth (or fingers) moved faster than their brain one time, as it almost always makes a bad situation worse and most people doing the leaping weren't even the ones insulted.

That said, I've spent a lot of time among jackasses (and been one), both malicious and well-meaning, and no matter how patient you are, it's very frustrating getting any of them to say anything but "hee-haw". So I understand why eventually people just start screaming at the outset.

[justspaz.livejournal.com]

Yes, definitely there are limits. I give people time, but sometimes there isn't any time to give. Like, my mother (who I've come out to) continuously tells me to just ignore things like Santorum and his ilk spouting such hateful things, but she never seems to get that I see no reason to respect someone who thinks I am so depraved and obviously has no respect for me and other LGBTQ people/POC/etc. But if it looks/sounds like an ignorant but innocent mistake, then yes, I'll hold my tongue. But if it goes farther, no, I will get angry.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Aw, thanks. I usually feel like I do a bad job articulating my opinions, which I guess is why I sympathise with Martin, heh.

I'm a queer woman and feminist too, and I agree with you. There wouldn't be many people left to like if I decided every person who's said something ignorant is evil. We're all human at the end of the day, and we all say things we regret later on. If they're the kind of people who would listen and try to better themselves, I see no reason to hold what they said against them, and I reckon someone like Martin would listen.

[justspaz.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I'm better at it, but I guess it is strangely fitting that I have trouble articulating in this context, no? :D

Yeah, definitely. I know I definitely say a lot of things I regret, ranging from just things that sound silly in recollection to things that are definitely ignorant. So I try to have that same level of wiggle room with others.