Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-03-23 07:01 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-03-23 07:01 pm
[ SECRET POST #1907 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1907 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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07.
[Disney's Gargoyles]
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08.
[X-Men: First Class]
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09.
[keanu reeves]
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[keanu reeves]
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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
11. [SPOILERS for Death Note]
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12. [SPOILERS for Kuragehime]
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13. [SPOILERS for The Walking Dead]
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14. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]
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15. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]
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16. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]
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17. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]
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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
18. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual abuse]
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19. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
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20. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 05:57 am (UTC)(link)You don't get to decide other people's identities for them, nice try though.
lso, don't fucking put words in my mouth about pain being imaginary. A rape hurts as much as it hurts. Period. It varies for each individual. If someone is telling someone else that they "should" be hurting more or less for ANY reason then they are a horrible person
You just said that it doesn't count as losing virginity, so then what do you say about people who say they lost their virginity to rape? They're wrong? They're wrong for feeling that way?
The physical act of rape is identical (more or less) to sex
Sex is only the physical act. You can keep trying to dress it up as more, but that's not the case. Sex is referred to physical aspects of things again and again and again. You don't get to change the definition just like that.
This doesn't automatically make rape and sex the same thing. The mental and emotional parts have a huge impact on the experience, making them sufficiently different to be considered separate things by many people.
Rape is very different from consensual sex, but rape is a kind of sex, a horrible kind of sex, but a kind of sex all the same. Sex is the name of the category.
no subject
You don't get to decide other people's identities for them, nice try though.
How was that not me letting other people determine their own levels of sexual experience? I want is for society as a whole to stop treating sexual experience as a yes/no binary concept. I'm not going to jump in and correct a persons description of their sexual experience - frankly it's none of my business.
Additionally, I am using the words "many people" repeatedly for a purpose. This is because I am explaining common beliefs and arguments with you. They are not necessarily my own opinion on the topic.
People change the definitions of words all the time, so the "you can't change the definition just like that" would only work if I was the only person using the word sex like that. I am not, I am just the only person currently talking to you that does.
However, we are clearly using different definitions of the word sex. Since many people disagree on the exact definition of sex in this case (as I have heard many people say that in must include consent and many people such as your self say it doesn't), we are going to have to agree to disagree on that topic.
Personally, I think we should be moving towards a definition that includes consent because I think this will help avoid apologist language. (I've heard on the news a rape described as "He had sex with her while she was passed out." Clearly, that was a rape and using the word sex in that context unfairly minimizes the severity of the crime that took place.) This is just my personal opinion and not (yet) universally shared.
(I'd also like to mention, in regards something you said two comments up, please don't ever tell someone who was just raped that they are no longer a virgin. Even if you don't agree, just don't.)
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 06:31 am (UTC)(link)YOU: "if a virgin is raped, she is still a virgin because you don't stop being a virgin until you CHOOSE to have sex."
That sounds like policing identities to me.
Personally, I think we should be moving towards a definition that includes consent because I think this will help avoid apologist language. (I've heard on the news a rape described as "He had sex with her while she was passed out." Clearly, that was a rape and using the word sex in that context unfairly minimizes the severity of the crime that took place.)
THEN WHAT IS THE GENERAL CATEGORY THAT INCLUDES BOTH!? Sex is the act. What it is not judging is motivation. "We had sex while we were drunk" could mean that it was consensual and everyone was sober enough to make choices, or it could have been rape if they were not sober enough to make choices. It is the clinical term, nothing more, nothing less. Trying to avoid the fact that rape is non-consensual sex lessens its severity. It's worse than assault because it's forcing someone to have sex against their will (as opposed to doing anything else against their will).
This is just my personal opinion and not (yet) universally shared.
Wow. You are an arrogant asshole, aren't you? There you go, insisting that you are right if not now, in the future when everyone has seen the light and agrees with you.
(I'd also like to mention, in regards something you said two comments up, please don't ever tell someone who was just raped that they are no longer a virgin. Even if you don't agree, just don't.)
Nope! I don't go around policing people's identities like you do! Because I'm not that much of an asshole. :D
no subject
YOU: "if a virgin is raped, she is still a virgin because you don't stop being a virgin until you CHOOSE to have sex."
We already went over how that was the logical conclusion to the sentence that preceded it. And thus the "many people" from the previous sentence still applied. Which means that I wasn't stating that as my own personal opinion, but as one that I have heard expressed by many people.
Why do we need a general category that includes both?
In addition, I've mentioned several times that I'm not going to correct another person if they say they are/aren't a virgin. Society as a whole is my business, just like it's everyone else's business by virtue of the fact that we all live in it. Other people's personal lives are not my business.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 06:59 am (UTC)(link)You have expressed time and time again that you,
Why do we need a general category that includes both?
Because it's easy to prove when fluids are exchanged, it's much harder to tell if something is rape. In a court case, the forensics people can only say that sexual intercourse occurred, not whether it was consensual or not.
In addition, I've mentioned several times that I'm not going to correct another person if they say they are/aren't a virgin.
Well then you better hope to god that a woman who is dealing with losing her virginity to a rapist doesn't read what you're saying.
no subject
You have expressed time and time again that you, mika_kun, hold the definition that sex = consensual sexual intercourse.
I'm pretty sure that I've always said "for many people" whenever I talk about that. Which doesn't mean that it's my opinion, just that it's one I've heard many other people express.
In a court case, the forensics people can only say that sexual intercourse occurred, not whether it was consensual or not. Still don't actually need the word sex. If they're talking about fluid exchange they're going to be mentioning which fluids were transferred and where they were transferred to. In this case the act itself would probably need to be explicitly mentioned anyway, so calling it vaginal intercourse or anal intercourse ect. would be possible.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 07:54 am (UTC)(link)You defining sex as always consensual:
I think we should be moving towards a definition that includes consent because I think this will help avoid apologist language.
And further referencing it: e are clearly using different definitions of the word sex
till don't actually need the word sex. If they're talking about fluid exchange they're going to be mentioning which fluids were transferred and where they were transferred to. In this case the act itself would probably need to be explicitly mentioned anyway, so calling it vaginal intercourse or anal intercourse ect. would be possible.
Fluid exchange happened, but that not a full conclusion. For example: what if the penis owner pulled out, what if fluid was later placed in the vagina, etc.?
Intercourse to me is more consensual sounding than sex, because it has connotations of a conversation or a back and forth between two people (ooo! another unexpected, but enjoyable pun!) whereas sex refers to genitalia, reinforcing the idea of the physical component.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 08:11 pm (UTC)(link)you're an obnoxious little shit, you know that?