fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1907 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1907 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Disney's Gargoyles]

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[X-Men: First Class]

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[keanu reeves]

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[keanu reeves]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [SPOILERS for Death Note]

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12. [SPOILERS for Kuragehime]

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13. [SPOILERS for The Walking Dead]

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14. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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15. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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16. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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17. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

18. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual abuse]

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19. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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20. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Tiana never had a chance to have a story free of class and racial bullshit. Disney stayed loyal to limitations they never had to set to begin with, for reasons I may never understand (to exploit jazz music for the soundtrack is my first theory, but then they could have used Harlem much better for that, and with fewer problematic stereotypes like rednecks and voodoo).

Because I think it would have been worse to not show it? People would still be complaining that Disney didn't make a black princess and that it tried to side-step all the issues, etc.

She didn't need to go that far. She just needed to be slightly more visibly flawed, which could have been covered by just one scene of her work interfering with her relationships.

Well, they did have that, just not in any significant way, which I agree would have been a lot better.

Why couldn't Naveen have been an African prince? Hell, why couldn't Tiana have been a African princess of a fantasy kingdom based off Kush, Ashanti, Yoruba? Or Disney-fy the Greek Andromeda myth (the princess and her parents were Ethiopian)? People of black descent don't lack for a rich history of royalty and fairytales, so copypasting a black woman into a European fairytale with a European prince in modern America was just...kind of a waste of a great opportunity.

Personally I think that it would be avoiding the issue in a sweeping-it-under-the-rug way. People would be all about how Disney would never have a black American character, etc. Also, I have a feeling they would get some flack for having the "ethnic Barbie" thing. In western cultures only white girls are special, etc. There's also a hell of a lot of issue that they dodge by avoiding the African continent, in particular making her seem tribal or by dodging the issue and making her Egyptian which is often considered part of "Western culture" too.

Oh, sorry I forgot to say: I think it was better in the long run for the couple to be inter-racial. It removes some of the "like with like" implications that you sometimes get. It's also implied that at least part of Naveen's heritage is Indian which I think is considered South East Asia?

I would have been able to roll with that if there was a single white princess who didn't end up with a white guy. The very first black princess was not the time for Disney to stretch their interracial muscles, especially considering they made all the other male characters of color in that movie either dead or evil. It was just...so much no.

Well then you consider Naveen to be just plain old white? (Honestly asking)

Also, there were only maybe 4 human living male characters if you stretch it and half of them are evil.

Naveen's design is ambiguously brown, his name has both Indian and French origins, his voice actor Brazilian, and his kingdom somewhere in Eurasia, so I figured he was multiracial. I don't really understand why Disney didn't just make him black. I would have been annoyed if he'd been obviously white, but this way if feels like they went through a lot of trouble to avoid the simple choice of a black prince.

*Shrugs* I think there we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd love to have an African princess too (though that doesn't seem like it would happen any time soon...) but I feel like the black American princess was a better choice if you were only going to have one. You wouldn't want to Europeanize an African culture, but I think a lot of people would be disappointed if she didn't have a big foofy dress.

I like that Disney is having a lot more ethnically diverse characters, including multi-racial ones, but that may be a reflection of coming from a family where I think we have members of a lot of different races.

People would be all about how Disney would never have a black American character, etc.

Considering Disney has so few American characters of any color in the vast majority of their animated canon and that doesn't seem to bother anyone, I sincerely doubt this.

There's also a hell of a lot of issue that they dodge by avoiding the African continent, in particular making her seem tribal or by dodging the issue and making her Egyptian which is often considered part of "Western culture" too.

That so many people really do seem to feel that drawing and/or writing fantasy with African characters is a choice between Egypt and tribes in the bush makes me so sad that I could not begin to express it. What I would give for an animated movie that finally blows that erroneous perception out of the water. Maybe some are out there and I need to stop expecting Western animators to provide it. To be honest, of all animation companies, Disney is the one I'd trust least to do it right. So maybe it's for the best.

Considering Disney has so few American characters of any color in the vast majority of their animated canon and that doesn't seem to bother anyone, I sincerely doubt this.

I thought it did, but I'm willing to concede. I just see a lot of people saying that they tried to avoid having a black character by turning Tiana into a frog for most of the movie, and while I would have liked to see her human more, I disagree with that.

That so many people really do seem to feel that drawing and/or writing fantasy with African characters is a choice between Egypt and tribes in the bush makes me so sad that I could not begin to express it.

Are there other example that you'd share of African cultures that don't fit those? I'd be very interested! I looked up Kush, but that's very similar to Egyptian in my very limited opinion.

Maybe some are out there and I need to stop expecting Western animators to provide it. To be honest, of all animation companies, Disney is the one I'd trust least to do it right. So maybe it's for the best.

I wish they would do something with the songs from the Aida musical, but wishful thinking!

I just see a lot of people saying that they tried to avoid having a black character by turning Tiana into a frog for most of the movie, and while I would have liked to see her human more, I disagree with that.

I don't think making Tiana a frog for so long was a "lol we hate black people" move, but it seemed like a really baffling and unnecessary divergence from their other princesses.

Are there other example that you'd share of African cultures that don't fit those? I'd be very interested! I looked up Kush, but that's very similar to Egyptian in my very limited opinion.

Cultures, there's too many to count. Kingdoms, the Kushite empire is my personal favorite, but if you just wanted to veer away from North Africa entirely, there's the Oyo, Benin, and Nri empires in West Africa, Kongo empire in Central Africa and the Mutapa empire in the South, among others. I've only just started researching (for a fantasy world I want to build), but there were a bunch of pre-colonial kingdoms across the continent. Wikipedia has piss-poor organization of all of them, but this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_empires) is an okay place to start.

I can see that and all I can do is shrug and say artistic liberty. I think for Naveen and Tiana they needed to get out of society for a while, and be stuck alone. Also, there's the problem where Naveen needs to be a frog at some point! lol!

Thank you for your examples! I'm definitely checking them out!

While I didn't say anything above, a lot of these kingdoms seem to have their best wear with a lot of patterns/texture. That's extremely problematic for traditional animation (though would be fine with CG).

Oh, I forgot to add, I would freaking love to see an adaptation of Aida in other mediums.

[ SECRET POST #1907 ]

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