Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-04-05 06:37 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-04-05 06:37 pm
[ SECRET POST #1920 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1920 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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[linked for... sort of scribbly porny, not really]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #274.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they are magical creatures. They are group that is subjugated by arrogant men who brainwash them into believing that the only thing that they are worthy of is cleaning and serving. After generations of this type of thinking it is naturally ingrained into them, that is why they find the very idea of being paid or receiving fair benefits as insulting. If they were given the opportunity to rise above their station and to actually be free thinking individuals they would most likely never want to go back to cleaning and serving wizard kind.
c) There are no laws against mistreating them because the wizarding community is still choked up with conservative aristocratic bigots who think they're better than all other magical creatures and don't care about their plight. JKR only spent five books expounding fairly explicitly on this fact.
This. I have to wonder if the OP has read the same books...the house elves (and other subjugated magical creatures) are there to draw parallels to the muggles and muggle borns. They too are seen as second class by the magical world, and not just the Death Eaters and pureblood supporters. Time and again we see Arthur Weasley (a "muggle lover") treating muggles as though they are cute, adorable and quaint individuals, the same way these "lesser" creatures are treated.
There are numerous times throughout the books that the subject of House Elf rights are looked upon seriously, and yes SPEW was a bit ridiculous but it was sort of supposed to be, precisely to point out how little other wizards actual care about these issues which just continues to strengthen the point JKR was trying to make.
no subject
THIS! This so much. It's true that Hermione tries really hard to get people involved and I honestly, truly felt sorry for her the entire time. There are tons of people who would be on her side, probably Hagrid and Remus Lupin among them, but I'll bet you anything that 99% of the HP Wizarding World are racist asshats...or just racist without even realizing that's what they are.
no subject
From a House Elf perspective, money could very much be like drugs. It's a gateway into a lifestyle they don't approve of. Dobby could very much be that weird kid hanging out behind the school smoking pot.
Part of respecting other cultures is to RESPECT other cultures and not demand they conform to your 'proper' beliefs.
no subject
For debate's sake, what if the House Elves see it as Wizards have been brainwashed by greed and false-idol worship to put value in money and the only true way to be a good person and receive an eternal reward is to work without pay?That they pity the wizards who spend their whole lives caught up in this eternal struggle for more money and more things and keeping other people from taking your things and your money?
This part of it could in fact be true, and in part, probably is.
Part of respecting other cultures is to RESPECT other cultures and not demand they conform to your 'proper' beliefs.
I don't even...like literally...what the actual fuck. Yes, you are correct, there are many instances where demanding an entire group of people conform to your belief system is wrong. However, it also wrong to deny someone their basic civil liberties, to subjugate an entire race of beings and treat them like vermin, to tell them they are second class citizens and next to worthless and not even give them the opportunity to choose for themselves what they want. And you may argue that Dobby is an example of that free will, however, House Elves have been subjected to slavery for so long they lack the ability to rise above that slavery and demand what they are owed. They can never be anything more than they are because they are uneducated and brainwashed into believing this is what they want.
Basically what you are saying is that it's totally cool to have slaves because that is part of that society's culture and we should respect that. Again, it's one thing to respect a group of people's desire to work without pay, its another thing to respect a society's mistreatment of creatures that could be truly sapient but are merely sentient because of that mistreatment.
no subject
I was also thinking of recent debate how when Muslim women in the US chose to dress modestly sometimes they get mocked and ridiculed because they shouldn’t choose to follow such anti-feminist moral codes. And they’re pressured to conform and bare skin the same as ‘free’ Christian women do. Freedom is being free to choose, not a differently decorated cage. Tell them that YOU know better and YOU know they’ll be happier in a bikini top and hot pants and if they’re not happy it’s just because of cultural brainwashing is just as arrogant and controlling.
no subject
And this is very true. However, the parallels you have drawn between the way someone chooses to dress and an entire group of people's subjugation is inherently flawed, though I understand the position you are trying to take. It is one thing to say that 'the way I dress is what I believe is morally correct', and it would indeed be wrong for someone to say 'no, happiness is a bikini top and hot pants.'
However, it has less to do with what House Elves is believed to be morally righteous and the actions and the morality of Wizards. It would be unheard of for a House Elf to ask for wages (as is obvious by Dobby) which would make it next to impossible for one to seek what we might deem as fair employment. But fair wages and benefits isn't even the most reprehensible aspect of the House Elves slavery.
Let's go back to your example. It is one thing to allow women to choose for themselves what they feel is appropriate dress, it is another to allow a group of women to continue to live under the tyranny of men, as the House Elves do. They have been basically bred to believe that not only is it their only goal and desire in life to serve men, but that if they do not do it correctly they have to hurt themselves because they failed. Many get punished by their masters, which is terrible enough, but the fact that they have been taught that they have to inflict self-harm and not only that they have to but that they *should want to* because of something as ridiculous as letting a dinner burn, is disgusting. It's not even comparable, in my opinion, to your example of dress codes.
It is one thing to say that House Elves love their pillow cases and no wages, it is another to say Wizards are in the okay because they love it, it is merely perpetuating the belief it is okay to treat them horrifically because they have been taught by Wizards that it is their desires. Do you not see the inherent flaw in this? It's as though an entire race of beings have all developed a genetic memory of the stockholm syndrome.
So yes, we should let people choose for themselves what they believe to is morally righteous for them, however, that can't happen if the group in question is too uneducated to understand that what it is being done to them is *wrong*.