[ SECRET POST #1925 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1925 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10. [repeat]


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18.


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________



21.


__________________________________________________



22.


__________________________________________________







Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #275.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat (same text, different image) ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[atheist-cheese.livejournal.com]

*shrug* I guess I'd be a bad person.

you know what else (i'd be morely likely to) be? alive.

part of what kills my enjoyment of these sort of big-buck YA franchises (Harry Potter for example) that the protaganist never has to make hard choices, morals-wise. It's never a choice between a bad decision or a worse one. They're always heroic and it always works out in the end.

[erthsfirefly.livejournal.com]

Eh I think that's a rather simplistic reading of Harry Potter. I recall Harry attempting to use the Unforgivable Curses on Bellatrix just because she killed Sirius which really makes him just as bad as the people he's fighting. Not everything he does is exactly heroic, just better than what the people on the other side were doing.

And then there are characters like Dumbledore and Snape who are a lot more in the gray area....

[imnotasquirrel.livejournal.com]

part of what kills my enjoyment of these sort of big-buck YA franchises (Harry Potter for example) that the protaganist never has to make hard choices, morals-wise.

IA. I think it would have been more interesting if Katniss hadn't simply killed Cato because he was ~dying anyway~.

Then again, she also had that moment with the tracker jackers.

[(Anonymous)]

I really liked that she was doing something semi-offensive instead of just playing defense all hunger games. You can argue that she had no choice, but I read it as still somewhat her own call.

I like the idea too that a YA hero can still be a good guy and make offensive strikes. It's something you don't often see, but it's true.

[azelmaroark.livejournal.com]

She was also talking a lot about hunting the Careers and switching from the prey to the predator. Even though she never got a chance to do it, I fully believe she would have if they'd showed up, unprovoked.

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this. I think part of what happened to her (and I'd guess happens to many tributes) is she got into a kill or be killed mindset, even alongside her wishes to also avoid harming people. "I'll kill em!" "This is all horrible and wrong!" etc. I think that's part of the horror, seeing those parts of yourself.

[captain-loki.livejournal.com]

I agree, Katniss would have done what needed to be done in order to save herself and keep her promise to Prim.

But what's interesting though is the Careers, who are almost literally bred for the purpose of the games. They're still kids and still put into that situation because of the Capitol but at the same time it's less of a tragic situation and more of a 'okay, let me prove myself', which I think makes them less innocent than the other tributes. They go into the situation fully prepared and eager to kill rather than being forced to do so.

[azelmaroark.livejournal.com]

(I want to point out that you are talking to probably one of the biggest Career fangirls on LJ, so if you don't care I totally advise you to ignore me.)

The Careers, IMO, are the most victimized in the entire Arena. The Capitol took the other Tributes' lives, yes, but the Capitol took the Careers' lives long before the Arena. I've written about this extensively elsewhere, but I don't think it makes a lick of sense that they just decided on their own that the Games would be fun. At least the others had some kind of life before the Reaping, even if it was a hard life. The Careers were sold to reality TV long before they aged into the Reaping, and I don't think the argument can be made that they chose that for themselves. I also don't think they're having nearly as much fun as they lead the audience (and many fans, by extension) to believe. It's all about acting, and they know this and their trainers know this. Not only do they have to participate in the death reality show, they have to welcome it and tell/show everyone how much fun they're having. The other kids might have had short lives, but they were something at some point to somebody besides the Games. What did the Careers get to have besides death reality show?

Movie Cato schooled the entire fandom at the end there on the Cornucopia, IMO.

[captain-loki.livejournal.com]

You are absolutely right, and it is absolutely horrific, and I don't think anyone would decide 'yay killing' except for the obvious handful of sociopaths bound to crop up. They were clearly brainwashed from early childhood, and that part of it makes their situation way worse than the others for the reasons you've laid out. But at the same time, it's precisely because of that, that the OP's original argument that you can't be a good person if you kill in the Arena is, imo, faulty.

For the others it is all about self-defense, whether you are actively seeking out the others and killing them or simply at the wrong end of a knife and having to kill or be killed. But for the Careers you could make the same argument, they have to kill either a.) more so because they need to appear to be the hardened soldiers or simply b.) because they have been taught, brainwashed, whatever you want to call it into believing that it is what they must do

So, I am tired and that might not have made sense. Basically my point is that the normal rules of morality do not exist in the walls of the Arena, they are essentially presumed dead before they enter, any life spent until the victor is declared is basically gravy. The way I'd see it is, if it isn't me that's taking that kill shot, it's someone else, and it might as well be me.

[azelmaroark.livejournal.com]

It made sense, and I definitely agree. I didn't even bother mentioning the Careers to OP because if I can't even convince them about the other victors I know I'm not gonna get anywhere with the likes of Clove And Friends. I don't know if I'd call them "good people" (don't like that term anyway), more morally-blank people. I don't think they're secretly weeping inside for their victims or anything, but I think the casual way they kill is just as much evidence that they didn't choose this and can't help what they're made into.

I'd say that morality doesn't apply in the Arena and take it a step further and say that morality doesn't apply to Careers. They did not consent to what was done to them and can't really be held responsible for what they either don't understand or had as little choice in as the other Tributes. (Just try saying "Nah, I changed my mind about volunteering" to your trainer and see how well that goes.)

[(Anonymous)]

IIRC, there's lots of people who volunteer per year in those districts to the point where they have elaborate rules about who gets to go when there are lots of volunteers. It would probably be easy to "accidentally" screw up that process.

or had as little choice in as the other Tributes. (Just try saying "Nah, I changed my mind about volunteering" to your trainer and see how well that goes.)

You know what? It would suck to tell your trainers you changed your mind, but they wouldn't literally kill you. Your chances aren't raised because they're poor enough to need more food.

Don't get me wrong, these very amoral (rather than immoral) characters are very interesting, but in the moment, yeah, they have more choice than the other tributes.

[azelmaroark.livejournal.com]

I see it completely differently, and I've explained why in probably much more detail than you ever wanted here. (http://themockingjay.livejournal.com/450940.html) I don't think my interpretation is the only interpretation, and I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but I feel that I've made a decent argument in the link that, however you see it, there isn't a lot of choice for the Careers, especially D2.

[(Anonymous)]

IA so hard. I love the appeals of YA, but the lack of moral issues makes me sad. THG went there more than some, but it still didn't deliver the way some adult novels do.

[sairobi.livejournal.com]

Agreed, so hard. Why bother to create a scenario like the Hunger Games (which begs the question, 'what if I was in this situation?') if you're just going to wuss out on the hard choices for the protagonist? The fact that Katniss was never forced to seriously contemplate killing/not killing any of the tributes with an iota of audience sympathy rubs me the wrong way. It's cowardly storytelling.

[(Anonymous)]

so much of this!

[mjnuts.livejournal.com]

This might be a spoiler, but in the second book, she does contemplate killing at least two characters that the fans enjoy... That'll probably come up in the second movie too.