fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1958 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1958 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 104 secrets from Secret Submission Post #280.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

This. So. Hard. All of it.

And as we know from this weeks episode..... [spoilers]

It's so frustrating. I understand that romance is and has been an aspect of the avatar series, but this is getting ridiculous.

I'm getting tired of shows that are too cowardly to have characters that sit outside of romantic hetero-cis-normalcy. I think the only main character without a specific romantic narrative is Amon. Just, jesus christ..... even veiled queerness would be a godsend at this point. And that's in so many shows, and children's shows. It's not unusual or "risky".

I just don't get this fear/muting of queer people. Not just the lgbt, but ace and even just "I don't give a shit about relationships right now" humans. Just. Argh.

At the risk of being labelled homophobic/insensitive/non-progressive etc... why does not including gender/sexuality discourse immediatly equal "fear/muting?" With something like LoK, especially, I think it's less a question of wanting to turn their back on an aspect of society and more one of "what can we deal with in the narrative?" In order to include LGBT and asexuality/aromantics as a theme, they'd have to devote a lot of time and energy to develop the concept so they can show it without it being called out as "tokenism" or "stereotyped." It's always a sticky issue, as much because people within the culture want to make sure it's portrayed right as because Moral Guardian douchebags want it to be ignored entirely. When they have SO much else they want to focus on I think writing about such a delicate topic would just cause problems. The cis-hetero romance has mostly been played for filler, laughs or cute so far, it's not really got much depth. I think if a non heteronormative relationship was being shown that way, they'd be eviscerated for "trivialising" queer people.

Apart from that, I get a little frustrated by the implication that any fiction HAS to include things or be labelled as cowardly or bigoted (And that's not just to do with queer people. I've seen vicious rants about authors being misogynists because they chose a male lead, even though there were AWESOME female characters and cries of racism because a movie set in Europe during a time where ethnic diversity wasn't really a thing had no ethnic diversity). I mean, a popular show that explores non heteronormative gender/sexuality would be awesome (bonus points if the character/s who are queer have a personality outside their sexual/gender identity. I get super twitchy when a gay character's ONLY defining trait is "LOOK AT MY SEXUALITY!) but isn't it okay to not want to tell that story simply because you want to write something else? I don't think it necessarily means that you're shying away just to appease the masses or because you're dismissing that whole social group.

I personally found the romance filler a nice bit of light hearted fun, but that's totally beside the point. Please tell me if I've unintentionally said something dumb and insulting, I'm horribly socially awkward and have absolutely no knowledge about how not to offend people when talking about volatile topics.

Hmm, I have a few responses! Sorry it's really TL;DR...

First, I think that dealing with queer characters, even in a cartoon show, doesn't mean you have to turn it into a "teaching moment" or have a 5-part arc that intros gender studies. If they're going out of their way for romance, it'd be nice to see a character who isn't interested in romance. If they're going out of their way to have characters interested in boys or girls, it'd be nice to see characters who simply.... "don't". And yeah, that's certainly not explicit. But this isn't an explicit show.

Sailor Moon was a show about women kicking ass (and having a lot of romance) and I would say that american television explicitly muted and discriminated against its queer characters. It turned a gay couple into cousins, and switched the gender of another so the implied pairing was f/m instead of m/m! I don't think there's any excuse beyond bigotry or cowardice for that.

An argument that "well the writers just didn't want to write about queer people" is fair, but it's not an argument that anyone who is queer is gonna enjoy. Given the hard times queer people and other minorities have, ignoring them might not be actively malicious, but it doesn't give those writers any good points, either. " All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" and all that.

I think it's important to keep in mind that most of the time people are mad at the systemic or implicit discrimination, and don't think that it's active bigotry pulling strings. I'm not upset at Korra in particular, I'm upset at a system in which the fear of writing queer characters is heavily prevalent. In which people assume that writing a queer character is any different from writing a straight cis person. Just like how people used to think writing a woman had to be sooooo different from writing a man.

I am completely dissatisfied by a media culture that doesn't bother asking why all the characters are hetero-romantic. Just like asking why all the characters are white in a complete fantasy world. Or why every main character is a dude.

It's the pop culture equivalent to the people who ask the question: "How will I talk to my kids about gay people?" ....We all know that it isn't fucking hard, and that kind of question is ridiculous. Being gay isn't a PG-13 subject, but a lot of people in america feel like it is, and it is insanely frustrating to see it played out like that time and time again.

Shows like Torchwood or Sherlock are good examples of having queer characters (and queer in all kinds of ways). I guess with Korra it's a bit like, you're going to the effort of having romance, so why are you writing really bland and tropey hetero relationships for every single character (and right now, every single female character, explicitly)? And I really am being honest that even "veiled" queerness like a female character that just "Isn't Interested" would be nice.

I mean, it's a personal thing. There are bigger, systemic issues I've mentioned, but my reaction to Korra? Personal thing. It bores me. I'd be more into it if there was some queer stuff happening. Or simply less romance.

Anyway, idk!? It's like I know where you're coming from, but at the same time... idk if that helped though.

No, that was totally helpful. I understand what you were saying much more now. Thankyou for taking the time to respond so thoroughly!

I agree that a system that seems determined to draw a (completely arbitrary and artificial) line between "us" and "them" and treat queer characters as a huge deal is completely out of whack. Intentionally blanking queer characters is utterly reprehensible. And if I think that the het romance was kinda cute if very formulaic, then I can certainly see why someone else would go "really? This plot again?"

I don't know, it's really tough. I guess for me, being all arty and obsessed with stories and tropes and all that (and just being tickled by cliche romance) I kind of have this knee-jerk reaction when this kind of argument is raised, because I just want the story. (Unless, of course, it's something like Twilight that has actively harmful themes when dealing with relationships and just being a decent person in general) I feel like some people are demanding that writers prove themselves by including things, never mind the merits of the actual story. And by that, I certainly don't mean you, you raised a valid point about the larger industry and I completely respect. But I've seen people railing against Rowling as a misogynist because she dared feature a male main character (never mind that, say, she also had Hermione and Luna and Professor McGonnagal and MOLLY FUCKIN' WEASLEY, BITCHES!) and part of me just twitches, because it seems like there are some people who are more interested in minorities being represented in XYZ narrative than the actual narrative itself, or that they think that if something doesn't prove itself as being explicitly progressive then it has no value at all and is just pandering to the culture of exclusion. At the same time, as I already mentioned, that culture does exist and it shouldn't. I just... gah, I get the "big picture" point of it, but sometimes the individual attacks just... get to me.

I know it's a bit of an empty platitude, but I guess with Korra the show is still very young, there's a lot of room for development and new characters and stuff.

[ SECRET POST #1958 ]

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