fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1958 ]

[ SECRET POST #1958 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1958 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 104 secrets from Secret Submission Post #280.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Not wanting to jump into the wank here (though I know I am), but I just wanted to throw in two things:

1.) I don't think that you should throw EVERYONE under the "bronies are bad" bus. I have a very good friend who got into MLP, and she dubs herself a brony, and even has an RD shirt with that term on it. Before you start ragging about how she must be a terrible person, she knows NOTHING about the fandom. NOTHING. She doesn't participate in fandom discussions, she doesn't write fic or look at art. She just likes the show, saw the shirt, liked the pun, bought it. So she considers herself a brony, and no, she's not a terrible person. She's actually one of the sweetest people I've ever met.

And even in the fandom, there are people who call themselves "bronies" that aren't terrible people. (No, I'm not one of them -- I prefer the term "pegasister.") You shouldn't generalize. I realize you've had bad experiences, and believe me, I've had bad experiences too, but generalizing still isn't the best thing to do.

And

2.) The term "derpy" is NOT ableist. It has absolutely nothing to do with mental disability. For the record, the term "derp" was coined by Matt Stone and Trey Parker (of South Park fame) in their movie BASEketball, and was later popularized in South Park. It merely refers to a stupid mistake/action someone makes (primarily because the substitute teacher in South Park named Mr. Derp would make mistakes, and then exclaim "derp!" after he did so). So in other words, if you accidentally poured salt in your coffee instead of sugar, whoops! You derped. The internet later started applying it to mismatched eyes, which is why the term was passed onto Ditzy Doo/Derpy Hooves/Bubbletea/that gray mare with the blonde mane and bubbles cutie mark. It has NOTHING TO DO with mental retardation. It absolutely isn't ableist. And honestly? Derpy/Ditzy/whatever you want to call her is one of the most popular ponies in fandom. I've never seen anything negative about her, not once. If anything, if she WAS supposed to be disabled (which she never was in the first place), fandom overall has/wants a positive portrayal of her (which is usually that of a clumsy but earnest hardworker and loving mother). I don't consider myself a brony, but the entire Derpy wank pissed me off, especially since most people (you included, apparently) didn't even know the actual origin of the word, and by saying "IT'S ABLEIST!!" you're MAKING it ableist, taking an otherwise innocent word and twisting it to hold negative connotations (which has happened with plenty of other words in the past -- the sexuality slur "f" word, for example).

I didn't want to jump into the wank, but I just couldn't resist here. Please, before spreading your SJ wank, try to do a bit of research, first. And stop generalizing, too. There are bad people in every fandom, under every label, but the dogs with the worst temper have the loudest bark. Not everyone is like that.

TRIGGER WARNING: ABLEIST & HOMOPHOBIC SLURS

I don't think that you should throw EVERYONE under the "bronies are bad" bus.

Why not? Bronies and the brony subculture is bad -- it's offensive, terrible, and disgusting. Period.

I have a very good friend who got into MLP, and she dubs herself a brony, and even has an RD shirt with that term on it. Before you start ragging about how she must be a terrible person, she knows NOTHING about the fandom. NOTHING. [...] So she considers herself a brony, and no, she's not a terrible person.

I'm sure she's not. However, she is an ignorant person (and I don't mean this in a cruel way -- I'm not calling her stupid, just saying she is lacking in knowledge). Even the name brony is, as I've explained already in this thread, offensive and exclusionary to women. Brony culture is offensive in many ways, including but not limited to misogyny, homophobia, racism, ableism, and transphobia. And I'm sorry, but before you start calling yourself something, maybe you should look up what it actually means, because "brony" doesn't mean "fan of MLP:FiM." It means "male fan of a particular type of MLP:FiM." I think maybe your friend should have done a Google search before buying that shirt.

(I've seen that shirt. It's cute. If it didn't say "brony" I would've bought it in a heartbeat. As it was, I asked my girlfriend if she thought I'd get in trouble if I damaged it -- since we were in an FYI, she said yes, haha.)

And even in the fandom, there are people who call themselves "bronies" that aren't terrible people.

If they continue to call themselves "bronies" and identify with the bronies, especially while involving themselves in fandom and thus knowing just what bronies, especially as a mass and subculture/subfandom, they are terrible people. Maybe not very terrible people. But they are enablers. They are willing enablers and presumably fully willing to turn a blind eye to the bigotry and disgustingness of their peers. Ergo, they ain't exactly smellin' lovely.

The term "derpy" is NOT ableist. It has absolutely nothing to do with mental disability.

Yes, it is, and yes, it does. (http://fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr.com/post/15821397354/trigger-warning-ableism-ableist-slurs-an-open)

For the record, the term "derp" was coined by Matt Stone and Trey Parker (of South Park fame) in their movie BASEketball, and was later popularized in South Park.

Shockingly, language evolves. Sometimes in bad ways. Do you also try to argue with people that "fag" isn't offensive because in the Middle Ages it referred to a pile of sticks? No? Okay then!

It merely refers to a stupid mistake/action someone makes

No, it doesn't (http://fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr.com/post/15024523125/how-to-tell-if-derp-is-ableist).

I don't consider myself a brony, but the entire Derpy wank pissed me off, especially since most people (you included, apparently) didn't even know the actual origin of the word, and by saying "IT'S ABLEIST!!" you're MAKING it ableist, taking an otherwise innocent word and twisting it to hold negative connotations (which has happened with plenty of other words in the past -- the sexuality slur "f" word, for example).

Wow. Wow. Did you just try to argue that people made "fag" offensive by arguing against it too much? Are you fucking kidding me? You are just.. you have NO IDEA what the fuck you're talking about, do you? Really just no idea.

First off: "Fag" was offensive LONG BEFORE people started actively speaking out about how offensive it is!

Second: "Derp" was offensive LONG BEFORE "Derpy" was featured in MLP:FiM!

Third: "Derp" was always offensive and ableist!

Fourth: You are seriously coming off as both ableist and homophobic. I suggest you consider educating yourself before you try to argue that if something isn't blatantly offensive the very first time it was ever used, it never can be. Jesus fuck. Get the fuck out of here and take your bullshit with you.

You, Madam, are incredibly persuasive. Just reading your frothing rage, your dismissal of opinions differing at all from yours, your intensely judgmental and self-righteous attitude, and your complete ignorance of the way the world works has made me reconsider using the term 'Brony'--which until now I had thought was incredibly stupid and cheesy--and resolve to use derpy much more often in my daily life. Cheers!

So, basically, because I am vehement in my hatred of misogyny, homophobia, racism, ableism and transphobia, you are going to go out of your way to be more of a misogynist, homophobe, racist, ableist, and transphobe?

Wow. I'm really, really glad I probably don't know you, you disgusting little cowardly bigot. "Cheers," indeed.

da

when you display frothing rage (and I fully agree with ayrt that that is what you are doing), say things like "all bronies are bad!" without doing anything to back it up (you have proved beyond a doubt that SOME bronies are bad but sorry, not buying the "all" bit just because you say so) (and this is not the only generalization I've seen you make about groups of people), as well as being insulting and dismissive of those you agree with even in the same breath as trying to tell them to get themselves educated (and you would be surprised how many people do actually want to do that - just not while they are considered lesser beings and piles of shit while they are still ignorant, because seriously, who wants to turn into someone who says that about ignorant people?), it is very hard to take you seriously.

Also, really? Who is going to do a fucking Google search before buying a funny t-shirt? What kind of time do you think people have? Should be be obsessively policing every aspect of our lives and triple-checking everything we say, do, buy and enjoy for political correctness?

I want to say that I admire you for your dedication to issues that are, in fact, very important and under-appreciated. However, it is really hard to take you seriously after a certain amount of time because I really only see you spewing venom at people, even over the slightest provocations (or lack thereof). I don't know if I've ever seen you be NICE to someone - neutral aloofness at best. And I also think you are very narrow-minded.

Just wanted to give you some honest feedback, because I really care about the causes you're talking about but I think you may do more harm than good. And I don't think you are always right, but anyone who dares to disagree with you tends to get shat on. Which sucks because I believe the way to a better world is people having an open mind and being honest with each other. You are not perfect and I don't think you have all the answers any more than I or anyone else does.

All of this.

Aww, hello grudgewanker. Still following me to every argument I get into so you can find an avenue to insult me without actually speaking to me, I see.

Pffft. I had no idea you were even a fan of this. So imagine my surprise (and glee~) at finding you spewing more narrow-mindedness in the guise of being a social justice advocate!! :D

Oh, just imagine my surprise (and disgust) to see you stalking me all through f!s being a defender of bigotry and demeaner of social justice efforts again!! :D

lawl oh yes, once again, it is so "narrow-minded" to oppose bigotry! Obvs I should just be sickly-sweet nice to all the little misogynists to make you happy <3

Ah yes. Me calling you out on your narrow-minded bullshit (k/s somehow being much more important than a progressive interracial couple like s/u) means I COMPLETELY endorse bigotry.

Yep.

Look, girlie, I'm just as into social justice as you, but I don't throw random people who DARE to disagree with YOUR, PERSONAL view of things under a fucking bus. YOU, and other SJW types, are the reason I dislike how the SJ movement is going.

Just because I don't lump ALL Bronies under the same, narrow-minded box YOU do doesn't mean I agree with the Bronies who DO fit into that generalized box.

But, whatever!! You continue to think I'm some vile, scum of the earth. I don't care. And I'll continue to call you out on all sorts of bullshit~!!

Ta ta~!!

I like how you act like I'm some horrid, narrow-minded little shit while simultaneously shoving words in my mouth (I never said K/S was more progressive than S/U. Ever. Maybe in your quest to see me as the bad guy, you misconstrued my words to mean such, but I never said that -- in fact, I explicitly said that I didn't especially see either as more progressive than the other, since [not in my original comment but adding it now for clarity] they are both progressive in different ways).

"Girlie." You address a woman like a child, stalk someone all over fandom_secrets just to pick petty fights with them, and you expect me to believe you're the good guy? Ahaha. Haha. Ha.

And just, lol, who the fuck did I throw under the bus in this post? Please, by all means, tell me who I threw under the bus by calling out bronies on the misogyny and other -isms/-phobias and disgustingness that pervade their subculture/subfandom. I'm just ever so curious.

And I'll continue to call you out on all sorts of bullshit~!!

Then by all means, call me on it! Oh wait, you haven't been doing that. You've been talking about me "behind my back" to other people and completely avoiding actually dealing with me personally until I actually interact with you, like a coward. My mistake.

When you act like a child, I shall call you one. Same goes for guys. I call them boys. Child, hon, boy, girlie.

Deal with it.

Oh, so agreeing or talking to other people about a common topic, that aren't you, is now talking "behind your back." Nice logic there. Not everything is about YOU (until you make it that way anyway, which is every time you open your mouth).

Oh I deal with you, when I feel like it. I just get bored of your long, drawn out dribble making ANYONE who doesn't 100% agree with you feel like all kinds of shit. So, nope. Not a coward. I just have more sense than to engage you directly after awhile. You get hilarious and desperate and it gets so damn painful to watch.

Once again, as another anon very succinctly pointed out, you do not help your cause, at all, by doing that. Even people who DO agree with you don't want to deal with you or even be associated with you when you pull that kind of bullshit.

Anywho, done talking to you. I have a movie to finish. ;)

(no subject)

curseangel.livejournal.com - 2012-05-15 04:41 (UTC) - Expand

when you display frothing rage (and I fully agree with ayrt that that is what you are doing)

Really? Because I don't. Anger, yes, but not "frothing rage."

say things like "all bronies are bad!" without doing anything to back it up (you have proved beyond a doubt that SOME bronies are bad but sorry, not buying the "all" bit just because you say so)

As I've said time and time again in this thread, the very LABEL "brony" is bad, wrong, and misogynist, ergo, yes, all bronies are bad. All people who "proudly" wear the label of brony and/or defend the bronies are enablers of misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, and ableists if not outright misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphones and ableists themselves.

(and this is not the only generalization I've seen you make about groups of people)

Your.. point? Yes, I do generalize. If 99% of Group A does X, I think it's safe to say "Group A does X." If the entire establishment / upper echelon of a subculture does Y, it's safe to say "members of this group enable Y or do Y."

as well as being insulting and dismissive of those you agree with

Did you mean "disagree" here? Otherwise it makes no sense.

even in the same breath as trying to tell them to get themselves educated (and you would be surprised how many people do actually want to do that - just not while they are considered lesser beings and piles of shit while they are still ignorant, because seriously, who wants to turn into someone who says that about ignorant people?)

It is not my responsibility or my JOB to educate people ~nicely and politely~ on how not to be a bigot or why and how something is bigoted -- even if I often do just that because people make me feel obligated (see the "Derpy" links I found above). And in this thread I've only had one person ask for info/education from me, which I gave fairly politely -- unless you expected me to not tell the anon I still thought they were an asshole when they did me the same "favor" first.

it is very hard to take you seriously.

Oh, well, believe me, making sure some anon on f!s takes me seriously is my very top priority.

Also, really? Who is going to do a fucking Google search before buying a funny t-shirt?

I'm not asking them to Google it before buying the shirt. I don't care about the shirt. They should Google it before they go around calling themselves by a certain label. jfc.

Should be be obsessively policing every aspect of our lives and triple-checking everything we say, do, buy and enjoy for political correctness?

No. But when someone is confronted with a huge pile of shit done by a group they associate with.. the appropriate response is not "but I didn't know about it, so not all [X] are bad since I'm not bad!" The appropriate response is "oh shit, I didn't know about this, I'll educate myself and consider distancing myself from this group."

However, it is really hard to take you seriously after a certain amount of time because I really only see you spewing venom at people, even over the slightest provocations (or lack thereof).

Then you haven't really been paying attention. I get pissed off at bigots and bigotry. I get pissed off over some things, and yeah, a lot of times I use f!s for venting because that's, you know, half the point. And I am incredibly fucking tired of sexism and bullshit and other -isms in both my media and my fandoms. REALLY FUCKING TIRED OF IT. So yes, I get angry. Sue me.

I don't know if I've ever seen you be NICE to someone - neutral aloofness at best.

Again, haven't been paying attention. At least I can rest assured that you're probably not one of my f!s stalkers.

I also think you are very narrow-minded.

-- CONTINUED

I'm narrow-minded because I.. hate bigotry and generally hate bigots? I think I'm okay with that kind of narrow-mindedness.

Just wanted to give you some honest feedback, because I really care about the causes you're talking about but I think you may do more harm than good.

Surely I have never heard this argument before, ever, anywhere, and it is in no way an obvious attempt to delegitimize someone's argument because they get angry. (http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/derailing-for-dummies-google-cache-reconstruction/#angry)

And I don't think you are always right, but anyone who dares to disagree with you tends to get shat on.

People who defend bigotry should be shat on. I'm sorry, should I play nicely with people who think it's totes okay if someone wants to be part of a group that sends rape threats to women over a children's cartoon show?! Who think that ableist slurs aren't ableist because they say so? Who blatantly defend a group whose very name is offensive even in the face of overwhelming evidence of their mass disgusting behavior?

Which sucks because I believe the way to a better world is people having an open mind and being honest with each other.

Yada, yada, never dare to get angry, etc., whatever.

You know, here's the thing: I know I don't have all the answers. I don't expect everyone to agree with me all the time. But on really blatantly disgusting and offensive shit? Yeah, I stand my fucking ground. And considering the amount of misogyny, homophobia, racism, transphobia and ableism in the "brony" subculture, that's one of the grounds I hold because I think it's fucking important to deal with them, and to acknowledge the shit they do and not excuse them because "oh, I have this one friend who's a brony and THEY'VE never sent rape threats!" IT DOESN'T MATTER. The overwhelming majority of that group are bigots. Bigots piss me the fuck off. Sorry if you don't agree that groups full of bigots should be opposed. Not at all sorry that you have problems with minorities expressing anger at said groups full of bigots.

Wow, you sure showed her that bronies are not terrible people. I can feel the love and tolerance!

da

lol, love and tolerance? Because curseangel is full of that, amirite?

Hello. I've seen you in threads where it looked like you knew just how racist and transphobic and ableist the bronies can be.

...so, why are you defending someone who says they're going to use "derpy" even more in actual conversation and believes that Derpy Hooves has been nothing but positive?

I don't defend anyone who uses that term or that fanonization.

But if someone just likes the name Brony (without all the knowledge of the shitty internet fandom) I have no problem with it. I may not like it, but I won't SHUN THEM FOREVAR like curseangel is doing. But that's just because she's a narrow-minded douche.

Okay, I just want to make sure.

I'm just pointing out that I was the love and tolerance anon. I said it because that was more in response to the anon saying that because of Curseangel, they're going to go out of their way to use the word derpy, which just isn't something the fandom needs more of.

Because they're my grudgewank stalker, and they must be against anything I say ever!

No, really, that's pretty much it.

Aww, my stalkers/desperate grudgewankers are back! I almost missed you guys!

Almost.

That was more in response to the anon saying that because they heard a word might be offensive, they're going to go out of their way to use it.

And that's saying that as someone who actually does have a mental disability and has had that word used against me, BEFORE South Park used it. Curseangel is full of vitriol too but at least she knows that word is bad instead of vehemently defending it like other anon.

I've never seen anything negative about her, not once.

Yeah, because making a character out to be completely clumsy and muffin-obsessed because of an animation mistake is totally positive. The bronies wanted something to laugh at and to be the butt of their jokes, end of story. Yes, some fanwork has portrayed her to be a loving mother or with a good heart, but that was not the original intention by any means. For them to suddenly turn around and act like they were being altruistic and tolerant this entire time when they just went "Lol, weird eyes pony! DERP A HERP A DERPY DOO!" is absolutely disgusting.

you're one of the reasons this had to exist

http://lafemmesfatales.blogspot.com/2012/06/readers-all-one-and-half-of-you-and.html

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