fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1958 ]

[ SECRET POST #1958 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1958 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 104 secrets from Secret Submission Post #280.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

PROUD female brony here

So, you're proud of being aligned with racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, ableist assholes? You're off to a great start!

Your supposed "innocent female fans" who were allegedly sent rape and death threats

I saw the threats with my own two eyes. They were not "alleged."

over the Derpy debacle weren't innocent, either.

No one deserves to be sent rape and death threats, no matter what.

Yeah, see how you feel when supposed "innocent female fans" are telling you you're too retarded to have an opinion on Derpy's offensiveness, only using more "PC" language.

I personally never saw any examples of this, but I'm sorry if that happened to you.

It was the bronies that came to my defense.

Not shocking, since your POV lines up neatly with their ableist, misogynistic bullshit and defense of the ableist caricature that was "Derpy."

Not the whiny little bitches

And you show your true colors even more than when you tried to be a rape threat denier, by proving yourself a misogynist. You truly do fit in with the bronies.

who set out from the start to demonize them, for enjoying a show about technicolor horses.

In case you didn't catch it, that's not why I or anyone else hates or "demonizes" bronies. We "demonize" bronies because THEY ARE ALL FUCKING MISOGYNIST SCUM.

You're so full of bullshit it's unbelievable. Either you have never engaged with a brony at all, or you came in spewing your bile about how you hate them all.

lawl. I have interacted with bronies, actually. They're fucking pigs and assholes. And uh, misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, and just as a bonus, ableists!

You make me sick, and make me ashamed to unfortunately have to share a gender with you.

The feeling is mutual, you misogynistic little shit.

No wonder you've gotten shit from bronies, you brought it on yourself.

We cap it off with victim-blaming! I SCORED A BINGO!

Don't believe me that your precious female fans didn't treat me like shit because I was disabled and had the motherfucking audacity to have an opinion that didn't line up with theirs? You fucking ableist piece of trash. I'd send you proof but I'm not going to engage with you anymore after this, because I am literally shaking with fury, you disgusting little waste of air.

You can think I'm a misogynist all you want because I think you're full of shit and because I refuse to censor myself to make you happy. You probably don't want to know what I think of you after this exchange.

I didn't say that I didn't believe you, but clearly you're just reading whatever you want to into what I wrote.

You are a misogynist. You victim-blame, deny rape threats, and call women "whiny little bitches," above and beyond your affiliation with a deeply and horrifically misogynistic group. You're a misogynist. And I could really care less what some fucking anon misogynist thinks of me.

Edited 2012-05-14 02:34 (UTC)

OK, now that I've calmed down somewhat, I'll try to reply to this more coherently than just "RAEG!"

I will offer a partial apology. I used the term "allegedly" because while I did see death threats, I did not see any rape threats first-hand, only heard about them second- and third-hand. I was a bit preoccupied at the time with fending off the individuals supposedly on the "right side" attacking me for my disability. Because that is still something that triggers a knee-jerk reaction, I assumed you did not believe me, and I went off on you- you didn't really deserve that level of rage. I still think you are an asshole, but I have been the bigger asshole here.

I stuck up for the bronies because they protected me without even knowing me against people who were saying I should have been aborted because I was obviously too stupid to think straight. It is still a very sore spot, and I lashed out in rage at you, when you really hadn't done anything to warrant it.

You may or may not take this in the spirit it was meant, but whatever. I overreacted, and I apologize for some of what I said.

Thank you for your apology. Seriously.

I used the term "allegedly" because while I did see death threats, I did not see any rape threats first-hand, only heard about them second- and third-hand.

I get that, but by using "allegedly" you basically made it sound like you didn't believe they had happened-- which is dangerous. It also sounded like you doubted the veracity of the death threats. It basically came off as a bit revisionist history -- trying to make it sound like bronies aren't as bad as they are by trying to cast doubt on what they've done.

I was a bit preoccupied at the time with fending off the individuals supposedly on the "right side" attacking me for my disability.

Fair enough. I didn't personally see any of that, like I said. I did see some people (rightfully) bringing up the concept of internalized ableism, or just plain ignorance where it came to the backlash against people who, like me, found "Derpy" incredibly ableist and disgusting, but I didn't see people behaving like that. If I had, I would have called them on it.

Because that is still something that triggers a knee-jerk reaction, I assumed you did not believe me, and I went off on you- you didn't really deserve that level of rage. I still think you are an asshole, but I have been the bigger asshole here.

I appreciate your acknowledging that. I still think you're an asshole, too, but somewhat less of one for admitting all this.

I stuck up for the bronies because they protected me without even knowing me against people who were saying I should have been aborted because I was obviously too stupid to think straight. It is still a very sore spot, and I lashed out in rage at you, when you really hadn't done anything to warrant it.

That's definitely fair (not the lashing out at me, the sticking up for the bronies). All I ask is that you seriously examine your affiliation with the bronies, because they are a truly disgusting group. Even if they help one person because it meets their needs (they stuck up for you because you were on their side in that argument, even if elsewhere they're off being misogynistic and ableist scum), that doesn't make them good people. At all. Remotely. Cos they're not.

You may or may not take this in the spirit it was meant, but whatever. I overreacted, and I apologize for some of what I said.

I'm trying to. And thanks.

Thanks for accepting it. And it's fair enough, I did kind of act like an asshole.

Actually, the last thing you probably do is want to keep talking to said asshole, but I was under the impression that you were supposed to use the modifier "allegedly" when you were referring to something that you hadn't seen first-hand yourself? At least, that's what I was taught in school? You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, you just got me wondering if I'm really missing something pretty major.

You are, but when you're talking about rape, rape threats, and that sort of thing, the victim-blaming and rape (and rape threat) denying culture makes it... iffy, to say the least. When you're talking about those kinds of issues, using "allegedly" can come off like you're denying that it happened / that it's possible, etc. A better way to say it would be "I didn't see any rape threats when I was involved in that drama," or, "I didn't see any rape threats on the site that I was arguing on."

I will remember that in the future. Thank you for taking the time to explain to me, I do appreciate it.

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curseangel.livejournal.com - 2012-05-14 03:31 (UTC) - Expand

Not wanting to jump into the wank here (though I know I am), but I just wanted to throw in two things:

1.) I don't think that you should throw EVERYONE under the "bronies are bad" bus. I have a very good friend who got into MLP, and she dubs herself a brony, and even has an RD shirt with that term on it. Before you start ragging about how she must be a terrible person, she knows NOTHING about the fandom. NOTHING. She doesn't participate in fandom discussions, she doesn't write fic or look at art. She just likes the show, saw the shirt, liked the pun, bought it. So she considers herself a brony, and no, she's not a terrible person. She's actually one of the sweetest people I've ever met.

And even in the fandom, there are people who call themselves "bronies" that aren't terrible people. (No, I'm not one of them -- I prefer the term "pegasister.") You shouldn't generalize. I realize you've had bad experiences, and believe me, I've had bad experiences too, but generalizing still isn't the best thing to do.

And

2.) The term "derpy" is NOT ableist. It has absolutely nothing to do with mental disability. For the record, the term "derp" was coined by Matt Stone and Trey Parker (of South Park fame) in their movie BASEketball, and was later popularized in South Park. It merely refers to a stupid mistake/action someone makes (primarily because the substitute teacher in South Park named Mr. Derp would make mistakes, and then exclaim "derp!" after he did so). So in other words, if you accidentally poured salt in your coffee instead of sugar, whoops! You derped. The internet later started applying it to mismatched eyes, which is why the term was passed onto Ditzy Doo/Derpy Hooves/Bubbletea/that gray mare with the blonde mane and bubbles cutie mark. It has NOTHING TO DO with mental retardation. It absolutely isn't ableist. And honestly? Derpy/Ditzy/whatever you want to call her is one of the most popular ponies in fandom. I've never seen anything negative about her, not once. If anything, if she WAS supposed to be disabled (which she never was in the first place), fandom overall has/wants a positive portrayal of her (which is usually that of a clumsy but earnest hardworker and loving mother). I don't consider myself a brony, but the entire Derpy wank pissed me off, especially since most people (you included, apparently) didn't even know the actual origin of the word, and by saying "IT'S ABLEIST!!" you're MAKING it ableist, taking an otherwise innocent word and twisting it to hold negative connotations (which has happened with plenty of other words in the past -- the sexuality slur "f" word, for example).

I didn't want to jump into the wank, but I just couldn't resist here. Please, before spreading your SJ wank, try to do a bit of research, first. And stop generalizing, too. There are bad people in every fandom, under every label, but the dogs with the worst temper have the loudest bark. Not everyone is like that.

TRIGGER WARNING: ABLEIST & HOMOPHOBIC SLURS

I don't think that you should throw EVERYONE under the "bronies are bad" bus.

Why not? Bronies and the brony subculture is bad -- it's offensive, terrible, and disgusting. Period.

I have a very good friend who got into MLP, and she dubs herself a brony, and even has an RD shirt with that term on it. Before you start ragging about how she must be a terrible person, she knows NOTHING about the fandom. NOTHING. [...] So she considers herself a brony, and no, she's not a terrible person.

I'm sure she's not. However, she is an ignorant person (and I don't mean this in a cruel way -- I'm not calling her stupid, just saying she is lacking in knowledge). Even the name brony is, as I've explained already in this thread, offensive and exclusionary to women. Brony culture is offensive in many ways, including but not limited to misogyny, homophobia, racism, ableism, and transphobia. And I'm sorry, but before you start calling yourself something, maybe you should look up what it actually means, because "brony" doesn't mean "fan of MLP:FiM." It means "male fan of a particular type of MLP:FiM." I think maybe your friend should have done a Google search before buying that shirt.

(I've seen that shirt. It's cute. If it didn't say "brony" I would've bought it in a heartbeat. As it was, I asked my girlfriend if she thought I'd get in trouble if I damaged it -- since we were in an FYI, she said yes, haha.)

And even in the fandom, there are people who call themselves "bronies" that aren't terrible people.

If they continue to call themselves "bronies" and identify with the bronies, especially while involving themselves in fandom and thus knowing just what bronies, especially as a mass and subculture/subfandom, they are terrible people. Maybe not very terrible people. But they are enablers. They are willing enablers and presumably fully willing to turn a blind eye to the bigotry and disgustingness of their peers. Ergo, they ain't exactly smellin' lovely.

The term "derpy" is NOT ableist. It has absolutely nothing to do with mental disability.

Yes, it is, and yes, it does. (http://fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr.com/post/15821397354/trigger-warning-ableism-ableist-slurs-an-open)

For the record, the term "derp" was coined by Matt Stone and Trey Parker (of South Park fame) in their movie BASEketball, and was later popularized in South Park.

Shockingly, language evolves. Sometimes in bad ways. Do you also try to argue with people that "fag" isn't offensive because in the Middle Ages it referred to a pile of sticks? No? Okay then!

It merely refers to a stupid mistake/action someone makes

No, it doesn't (http://fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr.com/post/15024523125/how-to-tell-if-derp-is-ableist).

I don't consider myself a brony, but the entire Derpy wank pissed me off, especially since most people (you included, apparently) didn't even know the actual origin of the word, and by saying "IT'S ABLEIST!!" you're MAKING it ableist, taking an otherwise innocent word and twisting it to hold negative connotations (which has happened with plenty of other words in the past -- the sexuality slur "f" word, for example).

Wow. Wow. Did you just try to argue that people made "fag" offensive by arguing against it too much? Are you fucking kidding me? You are just.. you have NO IDEA what the fuck you're talking about, do you? Really just no idea.

First off: "Fag" was offensive LONG BEFORE people started actively speaking out about how offensive it is!

Second: "Derp" was offensive LONG BEFORE "Derpy" was featured in MLP:FiM!

Third: "Derp" was always offensive and ableist!

Fourth: You are seriously coming off as both ableist and homophobic. I suggest you consider educating yourself before you try to argue that if something isn't blatantly offensive the very first time it was ever used, it never can be. Jesus fuck. Get the fuck out of here and take your bullshit with you.

You, Madam, are incredibly persuasive. Just reading your frothing rage, your dismissal of opinions differing at all from yours, your intensely judgmental and self-righteous attitude, and your complete ignorance of the way the world works has made me reconsider using the term 'Brony'--which until now I had thought was incredibly stupid and cheesy--and resolve to use derpy much more often in my daily life. Cheers!

So, basically, because I am vehement in my hatred of misogyny, homophobia, racism, ableism and transphobia, you are going to go out of your way to be more of a misogynist, homophobe, racist, ableist, and transphobe?

Wow. I'm really, really glad I probably don't know you, you disgusting little cowardly bigot. "Cheers," indeed.

da

when you display frothing rage (and I fully agree with ayrt that that is what you are doing), say things like "all bronies are bad!" without doing anything to back it up (you have proved beyond a doubt that SOME bronies are bad but sorry, not buying the "all" bit just because you say so) (and this is not the only generalization I've seen you make about groups of people), as well as being insulting and dismissive of those you agree with even in the same breath as trying to tell them to get themselves educated (and you would be surprised how many people do actually want to do that - just not while they are considered lesser beings and piles of shit while they are still ignorant, because seriously, who wants to turn into someone who says that about ignorant people?), it is very hard to take you seriously.

Also, really? Who is going to do a fucking Google search before buying a funny t-shirt? What kind of time do you think people have? Should be be obsessively policing every aspect of our lives and triple-checking everything we say, do, buy and enjoy for political correctness?

I want to say that I admire you for your dedication to issues that are, in fact, very important and under-appreciated. However, it is really hard to take you seriously after a certain amount of time because I really only see you spewing venom at people, even over the slightest provocations (or lack thereof). I don't know if I've ever seen you be NICE to someone - neutral aloofness at best. And I also think you are very narrow-minded.

Just wanted to give you some honest feedback, because I really care about the causes you're talking about but I think you may do more harm than good. And I don't think you are always right, but anyone who dares to disagree with you tends to get shat on. Which sucks because I believe the way to a better world is people having an open mind and being honest with each other. You are not perfect and I don't think you have all the answers any more than I or anyone else does.

All of this.

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curseangel.livejournal.com - 2012-05-14 23:12 (UTC) - Expand

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curseangel.livejournal.com - 2012-05-15 04:06 (UTC) - Expand

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curseangel.livejournal.com - 2012-05-15 04:41 (UTC) - Expand

when you display frothing rage (and I fully agree with ayrt that that is what you are doing)

Really? Because I don't. Anger, yes, but not "frothing rage."

say things like "all bronies are bad!" without doing anything to back it up (you have proved beyond a doubt that SOME bronies are bad but sorry, not buying the "all" bit just because you say so)

As I've said time and time again in this thread, the very LABEL "brony" is bad, wrong, and misogynist, ergo, yes, all bronies are bad. All people who "proudly" wear the label of brony and/or defend the bronies are enablers of misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, and ableists if not outright misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphones and ableists themselves.

(and this is not the only generalization I've seen you make about groups of people)

Your.. point? Yes, I do generalize. If 99% of Group A does X, I think it's safe to say "Group A does X." If the entire establishment / upper echelon of a subculture does Y, it's safe to say "members of this group enable Y or do Y."

as well as being insulting and dismissive of those you agree with

Did you mean "disagree" here? Otherwise it makes no sense.

even in the same breath as trying to tell them to get themselves educated (and you would be surprised how many people do actually want to do that - just not while they are considered lesser beings and piles of shit while they are still ignorant, because seriously, who wants to turn into someone who says that about ignorant people?)

It is not my responsibility or my JOB to educate people ~nicely and politely~ on how not to be a bigot or why and how something is bigoted -- even if I often do just that because people make me feel obligated (see the "Derpy" links I found above). And in this thread I've only had one person ask for info/education from me, which I gave fairly politely -- unless you expected me to not tell the anon I still thought they were an asshole when they did me the same "favor" first.

it is very hard to take you seriously.

Oh, well, believe me, making sure some anon on f!s takes me seriously is my very top priority.

Also, really? Who is going to do a fucking Google search before buying a funny t-shirt?

I'm not asking them to Google it before buying the shirt. I don't care about the shirt. They should Google it before they go around calling themselves by a certain label. jfc.

Should be be obsessively policing every aspect of our lives and triple-checking everything we say, do, buy and enjoy for political correctness?

No. But when someone is confronted with a huge pile of shit done by a group they associate with.. the appropriate response is not "but I didn't know about it, so not all [X] are bad since I'm not bad!" The appropriate response is "oh shit, I didn't know about this, I'll educate myself and consider distancing myself from this group."

However, it is really hard to take you seriously after a certain amount of time because I really only see you spewing venom at people, even over the slightest provocations (or lack thereof).

Then you haven't really been paying attention. I get pissed off at bigots and bigotry. I get pissed off over some things, and yeah, a lot of times I use f!s for venting because that's, you know, half the point. And I am incredibly fucking tired of sexism and bullshit and other -isms in both my media and my fandoms. REALLY FUCKING TIRED OF IT. So yes, I get angry. Sue me.

I don't know if I've ever seen you be NICE to someone - neutral aloofness at best.

Again, haven't been paying attention. At least I can rest assured that you're probably not one of my f!s stalkers.

I also think you are very narrow-minded.

-- CONTINUED

I'm narrow-minded because I.. hate bigotry and generally hate bigots? I think I'm okay with that kind of narrow-mindedness.

Just wanted to give you some honest feedback, because I really care about the causes you're talking about but I think you may do more harm than good.

Surely I have never heard this argument before, ever, anywhere, and it is in no way an obvious attempt to delegitimize someone's argument because they get angry. (http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/derailing-for-dummies-google-cache-reconstruction/#angry)

And I don't think you are always right, but anyone who dares to disagree with you tends to get shat on.

People who defend bigotry should be shat on. I'm sorry, should I play nicely with people who think it's totes okay if someone wants to be part of a group that sends rape threats to women over a children's cartoon show?! Who think that ableist slurs aren't ableist because they say so? Who blatantly defend a group whose very name is offensive even in the face of overwhelming evidence of their mass disgusting behavior?

Which sucks because I believe the way to a better world is people having an open mind and being honest with each other.

Yada, yada, never dare to get angry, etc., whatever.

You know, here's the thing: I know I don't have all the answers. I don't expect everyone to agree with me all the time. But on really blatantly disgusting and offensive shit? Yeah, I stand my fucking ground. And considering the amount of misogyny, homophobia, racism, transphobia and ableism in the "brony" subculture, that's one of the grounds I hold because I think it's fucking important to deal with them, and to acknowledge the shit they do and not excuse them because "oh, I have this one friend who's a brony and THEY'VE never sent rape threats!" IT DOESN'T MATTER. The overwhelming majority of that group are bigots. Bigots piss me the fuck off. Sorry if you don't agree that groups full of bigots should be opposed. Not at all sorry that you have problems with minorities expressing anger at said groups full of bigots.

Wow, you sure showed her that bronies are not terrible people. I can feel the love and tolerance!

da

lol, love and tolerance? Because curseangel is full of that, amirite?

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(Anonymous) - 2012-05-14 23:26 (UTC) - Expand

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curseangel.livejournal.com - 2012-05-14 23:43 (UTC) - Expand

Aww, my stalkers/desperate grudgewankers are back! I almost missed you guys!

Almost.

That was more in response to the anon saying that because they heard a word might be offensive, they're going to go out of their way to use it.

And that's saying that as someone who actually does have a mental disability and has had that word used against me, BEFORE South Park used it. Curseangel is full of vitriol too but at least she knows that word is bad instead of vehemently defending it like other anon.

I've never seen anything negative about her, not once.

Yeah, because making a character out to be completely clumsy and muffin-obsessed because of an animation mistake is totally positive. The bronies wanted something to laugh at and to be the butt of their jokes, end of story. Yes, some fanwork has portrayed her to be a loving mother or with a good heart, but that was not the original intention by any means. For them to suddenly turn around and act like they were being altruistic and tolerant this entire time when they just went "Lol, weird eyes pony! DERP A HERP A DERPY DOO!" is absolutely disgusting.

you're one of the reasons this had to exist

http://lafemmesfatales.blogspot.com/2012/06/readers-all-one-and-half-of-you-and.html

Ugh. I've been reading a bunch of this thread and well...I'm not actively involved in the fandom, only tangentially so, and I'm sure it's got a bunch of shit just like any fandom. Maybe it's worse, I don't know, and I'm not going to argue that point.

However.

I find your assertion that ALL bronies - any guy who uses that word to describe himself - is a "pig, asshole, misogynist, racist, homophobe, transphobe, and ableist" to be quite offensive. Two of my good guy friends - one of whom is one of my best friends - identify as "bronies" and they are nothing of the sort. They're not really involved in fandom either (one of them browses the Internet for memes and shit, but doesn't really do any forums, and the other isn't really involved at all). They probably don't know about all the shit that went down with various Internet bronies - and even if they did, would they be obligated to stop calling themselves a "brony" just because some people who use that title have majorly fucked up?

A brony is a male pony fan (or a female one who just likes the word "brony"; personally I use "pegasister" but ymmv). The word "brony" doesn't mean anything else but that. I would go and call the fuckups assholes and pigs, not bronies, or at least not "the only bronies that exist". They are assholes and pigs regardless of whatever else you call them. My friends are not assholes and pigs. They just like ponies and happen to be guys.

I find your assertion that ALL bronies - any guy who uses that word to describe himself - is a "pig, asshole, misogynist, racist, homophobe, transphobe, and ableist" to be quite offensive.

Okay, let me rephrase: "Any guy who uses the word brony to describe himself is either a misogynist, racist, homophobe, transphone, ableist and asshole, or they are an enabler and supporter of misogynists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, ableists and assholes." Better?

Two of my good guy friends - one of whom is one of my best friends - identify as "bronies" and they are nothing of the sort.

If they were nothing of the sort, they'd be... fans, not "bronies."

They're not really involved in fandom either (one of them browses the Internet for memes and shit, but doesn't really do any forums, and the other isn't really involved at all). They probably don't know about all the shit that went down with various Internet bronies - and even if they did, would they be obligated to stop calling themselves a "brony" just because some people who use that title have majorly fucked up?

Because the very name "brony" is misogynist, in that it explicitly names the subculture as for men only, and the group actively seeks to exclude women? Because a Google search could tell them more than enough to justify ditching the label? Because it's not just "some people" in the brony group who have fucked up, it's the majority of them? Wow.

A brony is a male pony fan

No. Just no. Full stop. A male pony fan is a "fan." Bronies are a specific subfandom/subculture group. It is not the same thing.

I would go and call the fuckups assholes and pigs, not bronies, or at least not "the only bronies that exist".

So what you're saying is, I should completely ignore the enabling, facilitating and supporting atmosphere of the group wrt -isms/-phobias, the fact that it's a huge majority of the group, etc. and only go after explicitly named bronies? Wow, that's short-sighted.

My friends are not assholes and pigs. They just like ponies and happen to be guys.

Then maybe your friends should try not adopting a misogynistic fan term used by a bunch of bigots? Cos when I hear "brony" I don't think "male pony fan" -- if it were just about being a fan of MLP, they'd be a fan. A "brony" has to make it more about the fact that they're male, that they're in that subculture, that they're a guy who's into a girls' show rather than just being a fan of it. It's a completely different animal, and your friends should educate themselves.

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