[ SECRET POST #1967 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1967 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________






Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #281.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

This is a good post that addresses issues people had with the trailer: http://sophistory.tumblr.com/post/23546709860/but-sherlock-holmes-never-hates-it-when-hes

And I cannot with people who are upset over Joan gasping at the sight of the dead body. Good lord. It's not like she full on fainted and needed smelling salts. Yes she's a surgeon and has seen bodies before. But seeing a body on a operating table is different than opening a door to find a corpse in a pool of blood. It's a bit shocking and her gasping doesn't make her ~weak.

As far as the military service stuff and being a surgeon who has lost her license... well we don't know the full story yet. Women in the military don't have the same experience as men. They are still not allowed in combat (this policy is slowly changing but idk if it has yet). So just by changing the gender of the character, they're already changing her potential military experience. Plus, I don't really believe that Watson's military experience is ESSENTIAL to the character. And as far as being a surgeon who has lost her license... we don't know the circumstances yet. It doesn't mean that she's incompetent or a bad doctor. She might have just had a bad case. The important part is that being a surgeon who lost her license is putting her in a position where she is a bit lost in life which is why she would take up with Sherlock and get swept up in his crime solving.

And finally the options in this scenario were not Joan/Sherlock heterosexual and interracial relationship (IF the show is even going to go there) relationship vs John/Sherlock homosexual relationship. So by making John into Joan we are not being ~robbed~ of a gay relationship on TV. THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. IT WAS NEVER AN OPTION. So making John into Joan is NOT an example of homophobia. It just isn't. John and Sherlock is not a canon sexual relationship so there is no gay relationship being erased.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

I feel the same, mostly. I'm still sore over Joan not being a military vet, but not because of it going against canon. There aren't a lot of female military characters on TV, and seeing how a change of gender would have effected her service would have been interesting. Otherwise, I agree! Lucy Liu is awesome, and this could be really cool.

[agnes-bean.livejournal.com]

And finally the options in this scenario were not Joan/Sherlock heterosexual and interracial relationship (IF the show is even going to go there) relationship vs John/Sherlock homosexual relationship. So by making John into Joan we are not being ~robbed~ of a gay relationship on TV. THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. IT WAS NEVER AN OPTION. So making John into Joan is NOT an example of homophobia. It just isn't. John and Sherlock is not a canon sexual relationship so there is no gay relationship being erased.

THIS THIS THIS.

Listen, in an ideal world, I'd take Jon and Sherlock in a gay relationship over Joan/Sherlock, even though its interracial, because a gay couple on this kind of show -- not to mention with those iconic characters -- is basically (entirely?) unheard of on US network TV, and that would be amazeballs. But that was NOT what was going to happen. It would have been another bromance. And as much as I love me some bromance, either a deep male/female platonic friendship or an interracial couple is more exciting to me at this point.

[spicandspan89.livejournal.com]

You bring up some very good points.

And as far as being a surgeon who has lost her license... we don't know the circumstances yet. It doesn't mean that she's incompetent or a bad doctor. She might have just had a bad case. The important part is that being a surgeon who lost her license is putting her in a position where she is a bit lost in life which is why she would take up with Sherlock and get swept up in his crime solving.

Agreed - I highly doubt she's an incompetent doctor. If she is... well, the idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It will be interesting to see the circumstances around the loss of her license explored on the show.

[saya22.livejournal.com]

So by making John into Joan we are not being ~robbed~ of a gay relationship on TV. THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. IT WAS NEVER AN OPTION.

Seriously. I mean, there was never a real gay relationship in the first place. Ship it if you want, I certainly do, but lbr what they have is real, solid male friendship.

[(Anonymous)]

Not robbed but it is a pretty good excuse to make them finally a romantic couple

[(Anonymous)]

This!

No one is complaining that they took away a homosexual romance, is that they can finally put Holmes and Watson in a romance setting now BECAUSE they are different sexes.

People have every right be upset if they finally did it in this show.

[(Anonymous)]

This exactly!

[(Anonymous)]

OP

My issue with the gasping scene is that I don't think they would have had Watson do that if a man was playing him.

[(Anonymous)]

Canon!Watson was a man. Canon!Watson did the following:

/“There is something devilish in this, Watson,” said he, more moved than I had ever before seen him. “What do you make of it?”

I stooped to the hole and recoiled in horror./

Oop.

[(Anonymous)]

LOL! I think the best thing about all this is the complaining about stuff that show the complainer is completely unfamiliar with the original canon.

I saw somebody rage "HE NEVER SAID ELEMENTARY!! AAAAAAH!!" - which, of course is not true. He just never said 'Elementary, my dear Watson.'

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Sorry, you're wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

The moment which you quoted has him flinch for an entirely different reason though. The dead body was stuck in a disturbing grin, staring at them. The one in the preview is just a dead body on the floor, and being an army doctor, it wouldn't make Watson gasp. I know Joan isn't an army doctor, but if a man was playing Watson, he probably still would be.

To clarify, not saying Watson never gasped.

[(Anonymous)]

She gasped. That's it. She. Gasped. That doesn't mean she is uncomfortable with bodies, it just means she wasn't expecting to see one when she opened the door. Someone gasping because they open a door to a jack in the box jumping out or a person just standing there when they didn't expect it doesn't mean they're afraid of children's toys or people. There is no reason to believe male Watson wouldn't react, too.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

We really won't know either way until we actually see the episode and how Watson's character is treated. If it's not what I think it is, and Joan turns out to be a BAMF, well then great. I'm just saying that's the impression I got from the trailer.

That said, it still bothers me that she's not an army doctor. They better have a good reason for it because I can't think of one.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Also, she didn't *just* gasp. She looked away for the rest of the clip and stayed away from the body. Just sayin'.

[jazmin-firewing.livejournal.com]

I dunno, I think I'd stay away from the body too if I was a visitor to a crime scene and there were police and CSIs who needed to get to the evidence before it became contaminated. Joan's a doctor. Doctors deal with the living. That woman was dead; there was nothing that Joan could do. So why not stay out of the way until the CSIs had done their job or Joan was called over to help estimate cause of death? She's not the coroner, that's not her job.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Good point, but the way they did it still doesn't sit well with me. It seemed like an emotional reaction, which would be ok if it's something to do with her character's past.

[(Anonymous)]

As far as the military service stuff and being a surgeon who has lost her license... well we don't know the full story yet. Women in the military don't have the same experience as men. They are still not allowed in combat (this policy is slowly changing but idk if it has yet). So just by changing the gender of the character, they're already changing her potential military experience. Plus, I don't really believe that Watson's military experience is ESSENTIAL to the character. And as far as being a surgeon who has lost her license... we don't know the circumstances yet. It doesn't mean that she's incompetent or a bad doctor. She might have just had a bad case. The important part is that being a surgeon who lost her license is putting her in a position where she is a bit lost in life which is why she would take up with Sherlock and get swept up in his crime solving.

But there are female army doctors and in the line of danger as well tho'. And someone said it in this thread, that Watson's military experience usually comes in handy time to time. I like that the recent Holmes canons acknowledge that fact. There is no real reason NOT to make her an army doctor. It's just making Watson more suitable for a woman to play.

And finally the options in this scenario were not Joan/Sherlock heterosexual and interracial relationship (IF the show is even going to go there) relationship vs John/Sherlock homosexual relationship. So by making John into Joan we are not being ~robbed~ of a gay relationship on TV. THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. IT WAS NEVER AN OPTION. So making John into Joan is NOT an example of homophobia. It just isn't. John and Sherlock is not a canon sexual relationship so there is no gay relationship being erased.

I don't think you get why people are outraged and rightfully so if they turn their relationship into a romance. Holmes and Watson has been analyzed for centuries for their homosocial relationship. Understandably with the still-current homophobic environment, no canon based on ACD's books actually make them romantic interested (although you can argue that House is prolly the closest you will ever get). However, if you get them together as different sexes, it does count for a type of erasure.

And I lol that somehow interracial couples are just as rare or controversial as gay couples to the responses for this because that's frankly bullshit. I mean, they can be both interracial and the same sex, y'know. I would've like Sherlock being genderbent too and Liu's Watson too (although I am kinda uncomfortable everyone wants Liu to be Sherlock even though it falls into a lot of East Asian stereotypes if she's Holmes. Holmes that is Black or Brown would be pretty awesome, but that's too progressive for today's TV media. Especially when Scandal is the first Black female fronted drama series that made past the first season on a major network in 40 years...).

[(Anonymous)]

You cannot both say that changing her into a disgraced surgeon fundamentally changes the character and say that the only difference in their relationship will be that she's a girl. It's actually highly unlikely they'll do more than tease at the relationship, because part of Sherlock's thing is to not be into anyone, but even if they did it'd be wrong to say that a (modern) disgraced female surgeon living in America working with American police and Sherlock will have the exact same relationship and social situation as a (modern) male army vet living in London working with London police and Sherlock. The way they interact will be different in some ways. That's part of the point of changing Watson into a girl--so it's a new take one Sherlock, not so they can pair up two characters who never paired up in the original source.

Also, aside from the likelihood of Sherlock being asexual/chaste, it's theoretically possible that Watson could still have a Mary love interest, rather than a 'Martin'.

[elenauial.livejournal.com]

My problem with this show (possibly) putting Joan and Sherlock in a relationship whereas there has never been an adaptation where a male John and Sherlock are in a relationship are the arguments against it.

The people who argue against a gay Sherlock and John say things like, "It's not in the original canon" and "It's this great friendship, one of the greatest friendships of all time, it's not at all that they're romantically interested in each other."

If Joan and Sherlock were to begin a romantic relationship on Elementary and those same people have no problem with it, even though their exact same logic still applies, that's what I have a problem with. The only thing that's changed in that case is the genders, and that seems pretty damn homophobic to me.

But, like it's been said, nothing's happened yet, but if it does, that's what's going to make me mad.

[(Anonymous)]

So by making John into Joan we are not being ~robbed~ of a gay relationship on TV. THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. IT WAS NEVER AN OPTION. So making John into Joan is NOT an example of homophobia. It just isn't. John and Sherlock is not a canon sexual relationship so there is no gay relationship being erased.

If their relationship is platonic that's fine, but if they get together, it is homophobic. Because it will mean that John only became Joan for the sole purpose of being able to have romance, but keep it nice and straight instead of icky and gay, which is pretty damn homophobic.

[slyprentice.livejournal.com]

Agreed so, so much and thank you for that link. I shall be using it in the future.