fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1986 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1986 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 119 secrets from Secret Submission Post #284.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0- not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 - going to have to be a little more subtle than this ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I don't know if I agree with you completely, perhaps because you're being hyperbolic.

First I think you mean women who are reoccurring, since a lot of the ones who were part of a case are still alive. Cassie and Sarah are still alive and while feelings on Cassie are mixed (not I think because she was a woman, because she broke Dean's heart a little), Sarah is loved. Amy isn't hated, since she seemed like a really good friend for Sam.

For reoccurring characters, I know Meg and Sheriff Mills are still alive and kicking (well, I hope Meg is, but I honestly can't see them letting Crowley kill her off-screen) and loved, even though Meg is evil. I know neither Ruby nor Lilith nor Ellen nor Anna (I've seen very little hate on Anna, but I have seen that she comprises one half of most of the femslash. Where are you going in fandom?) were killed off because people hated them. Ruby, Lilith, and Anna weren't fridged. They were killed for plot purposes exclusively and didn't have a bolstering effect on the boys at all. Ellen especially is loved (Bobby/Ellen shippers exist, they just don't write fic), but I will agree she was fridged. People loved Pamela and were really sorry to her go, where I lurked. Tessa is flawless and I have seen no hate shown her way. Neither Lenore nor Elanor were hated. Ava went crazy and people still like Ava. People also want more backstory on Gwen, despite loathing the Campbells. You really seem to be simplifying a far more complicated situation.

I agree that Jo, Bela, Lisa, and Becky got mixed reactions, and I agree it was because of the way that they interacted with the boys whether romantically (in Lisa and Jo) or intellectually (Bela). Becky was fun as the ultimate self-insert until she turned rapey, and therefore is in another category. I do think that Jo and Bela got a ton of hate that seemed to stem from the fact that they interacted in any way with Dean. Jo particularly didn't make any sense, since she was flirtatious maybe twice and was in like 5 episodes. Bela was just far more intelligent than them and hard to classify as a good or bad person, which actually does affect feeling on a character, but I do think much of the hate was unwarranted. Lisa's romance with Dean is the least developed romance with a totally kickass person and Dean ever. A lot of the disgruntlement with her character was that it was hard to see if Dean was ever invested. Some is it is the same over-protectiveness with Dean that occurred with Jo and Bela and did seem rooted in misogyny. Some of it was the fact that the writers didn't really seem to know what to do with Dean and Lisa's relationship once the boys were back together. Some of it was that Lisa rightfully called Sam and Dean's relationship fucked up under a truth spell. The reaction to Lisa was legitimately mixed.

Female Cas would be just fine with fans if she was helpful (unlike Bela) and shot down every attempt Dean made at romance. If the romantic tension built from there, since there's really only Sam to ship Dean with otherwise, I don't think it would be an issue. But they probably still wouldn't be together because leaving romantic tension hanging is what shows do for seasons and seasons. I do think Male Cas and Female Cas would be treated differently by the writing team.

So basically if your friends hated these characters for ridiculous reasons, they might possibly be in the minority, especially now, and they suck.

I find the fact that you think Ruby and Anna weren't killed off because the fans hated them (which they did. I don't know what circles you ran in, but I've never seen a female SPN character get more hate that Anna or Ruby 2.0) absolutely hysterical. That's EXACTLY why they were killed off. Sure, the show attempted to hide it by giving 'storyline ~reasons' for their deaths, but ultimately...it was because the fans wanted them both gone. And in order to kill them off without making the boys look bad, the writers chose to vilify both women so the boys would be 'justified' in killing them. It was gross and disgusting and Anna's murder (after her entire characterization was altered to fit her new 'evil' persona) was the final straw for me with this show.

What I find hysterical is that you ever that Ruby was going to survive. Really? You seriously couldn't see that, as soon as she seem shady (Ruby 1 and 2 btw). Just because you think she would have been a "good" demon doesn't mean that it was the only logical conclusion. I thought it was a backstabbing waiting to happen. She was always a demon, so I'm not sure what vilification you thought she got. I think the fans were terrible terrible terrible people to Genevieve Cortese, but you'd only think Ruby was vilified by the writers if you think she was ever "good." I never said people loved Ruby either, just that wasn't necessarily the reason for her dying.

Sorry, I think Jo and Bela got the most irrational hate (because hatred that deals with hating a character's motives and personality isn't misogyny). I will give you that Anna's storyline could have ended differently, but considering they had the chance to make Anna disappear 15 episodes before when Castiel ratted her out, her death seemed like story purposes to me, since it closed the time loophole. Again, heavenly torture changes angels, so Anna going super logical isn't vilification, just like Castiel going super party line isn't vilification. If you think it is, that's your prerogative but a character's motives intensifying has never been vilification to me. Since Michael killed her (not either of the boys so that type of justification wasn't necessary for them) and Michael is a angel and therefore a dick, I thought you were supposed to think Michael was dick for killing Anna. Especially since Sam mentions that killing him in the past was actually a good idea. And no I've never heard anything bad about Anna.

[ SECRET POST #1986 ]

So this is my dissertation on this

Re: So this is my dissertation on this

Re: So this is my dissertation on this