fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1998 ]

[ SECRET POST #1998 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1998 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Peter Gabriel]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

10. [SPOILERS for the Hunger Games]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [WARNING for abuse]

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12. [WARNING for rape]

[Hetalia]

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13. [WARNING for abuse]

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14. [WARNING for gore, animal abuse]
http://i.imgur.com/SjfD3.jpg
[images of actual dead animals and stuff.]

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15. [WARNING for rape]

[Video Games Awesome Live]

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16. [WARNING for abuse]

[Avatar: the Last Airbender]

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17. [WARNING for rape]

[American Horror Story]

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18. [WARNING for dub-con, grooming, brainwashing]

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19. [WARNING FOR general discussion of triggery topics (there's bound to be triggering material in the comments)]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #285.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 (warning for rape) - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Okay so that's the way it works in this magical world, but don't you find it a bit odd or sick that a writer actually decided that's the way it was? Who does that? Who sits down and thinks up a way for an adult man to be in love with and groom a child for sex? There was absolutely no need for that other than the author wanted it to be that way. That's more than a little fucked up.

Just another piece of evidence of the total wacky factory that is Meyers brain. That woman seriously need therapy.

This! It might be unintentional in the story canon, but Meyer CHOSE to write it that way. She's not documenting some real story. She made up imprinting and created this situation of child grooming.

This x 1,000

Exactly. I get it if a set world were like that. Say, she was playing with a piece of mythology that has that element. But no, she's making it up right out of her mind. Like ... seriously, why would you even make that a thing?

I would like to point out that that isn't necessarily true. It is stated quite clearly in canon that the girl who was imprinted on will only develop romantic/sexual feelings for the imprintee IF the imprintee develops them first. So Jacob does not have any romantic or sexual feelings for Renesmee, it is biologically impossible for him to until she a) grows up and b) falls in love with him first.

The author's attitude is still creepy as fuck, as I recall she said something along the lines of "the girl does have a choice not to be with the imprinter, but no one would be able to resist that level of devotion" which is eww, but it does not make Jacob a goddamn pedophile, stop using words if you don't know what they mean. (Not specifically talking to you, I'm talking to everyone who complains about this.)

There are still obviously pedophilic/child grooming undertones, since it is essentially assumed by everyone that Renesmee and Jacob will eventually get together.

Yes, but those implications are out-universe, not in.

I'm not denying that it's creepy and unheathly, I just get annoyed when people say that it makes Jacob a pedophile.

The whole relationship is twice as uncomfortable because the shifters are forced to feel a certain way.

Éxcept that is kind of is in-universe too because as I recall, when Renesmee shows Bella her thoughts for the first time Bella sees memories of Jacob with the distinct undertone of 'mine'(/hers, Renesmee's, whichever). Not sure if that is the right quote, but to me this certainly looks like Renesmee wanting to be with him when she's older, if not already (since Meyer decided to just give her an adult's brain because why not >< )

No, it's in universe as well. Remember what Jacob was saying about Quil and Claire? He was saying they'd grow up to be as happy as Sam and Emily. If that wasn't a clear implication of getting together in the future, then what is?

Honestly, I'm MORE disturbed by the fact that those implications are not in-universe. I'd be less disturbed by the whole imprinting thing if it were just written to be what it is - creepy. The fact that she tries to make it sound like a beautiful thing skeeves me out far more than the relationship itself. If written a little more tongue-in-cheek, this sort of thing could be used as fascinating, fucked-up character study.

Actually, I'd have less of problem with Twilight in general if everything in it were written this way. I have no problem with reading stories about creepy relationships that are presented as creepy. I DO, however, have a problem when creepy relationships are held up as the ideal. I would read the SHIT out of a Twilight where Meyers was clever enough to make it a dark relationship drama about a weak-willed girl who romanticizes her vampire boyfriend too much to realize that he is a controlling, violent asshole.

Re: but...

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-26 04:06 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, but the writer is responsible for creating that situation in the first place, no matter how many excuses the story itself presents.

It doesn't matter if it's never ever non-consensual, the whole subplot shouldn't exist to begin with!

Agree completely. SM has some serious problems.

But I wouldn't necessarily say that it shouldn't exist... in the hands of a competent writer who acknowledged the inherent creepiness, it could be interesting.

Oh, I agree.

Frankly, the whole series would be really cool in the hands of a more competent writer.

I've seen some excerpts of the books, read some of the fanfic mentioned elsewhere called "Luminosity", and realized that there is a good story buried beneath the bad writing. Even the characters have the potential to be interesting if they were actually fleshed out, and the thing with the Vulturi (sp?) could be a very exciting action-packed, mystery subplot alongside the romance, if it was all better balanced in terms of how much time/length of the book(s) you dedicate to each (quality aside).

Re: but...

lielac - 2012-06-23 03:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: but...

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-23 06:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: but...

diet_poison - 2012-06-23 17:40 (UTC) - Expand

Re: but...

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-24 09:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: but...

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-24 16:11 (UTC) - Expand

Re: but...

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-24 16:12 (UTC) - Expand

Re: but...

diet_poison - 2012-06-24 17:49 (UTC) - Expand

It may be stated in canon that the girl has to fall first, but how does that explain San and er.... Leah's cousin. He falls for her when she's telling him no - that's why he accidentally hurts her (also, really, really irresponsible for him to be around people when he couldn't control himself). Unless you're going to tell me that Leah's cousin was secretly in love with him (I haven't past the first book).

As far as I recall Emily was only rejecting him because she felt bad for Leah. But it is beyond creepy that he attacked her over rejecting him. I'd forgotten about that and was under the impression that the incident had occurred because of something else, rather than the anger being directed at her. Apparently I give SM too much credit. :/

Don't you find it a bit odd or sick that a writer actually decided that's the way it was?

DA, but as a fan of the horror genre, I have to point out one thing: just because an author writes about a pedo-loving group of beastpeople doesn't mean s/he/all authors who do so are total skeeves and nutjobs IRL. Meyer's execution was terrible, since she tried to skew these very abnormal relationships as desirable and cutesy, but given that this is a series supposedly about vampires and werewolves, which are monsters, I don't think there's a problem with the basic concept. It's okay for an author to write about a thoughtless protagonist, and an abusive stalker boyfriend, and a wolf who's into little girls... so long as it's all portrayed as it should be, as horror, as unsettling and threatening and amoral. Those are dark themes and actions suitable to inhuman/undead/possibly damned characters, and if handled correctly, could've made for a really good book.

Of course pedophilia doesn't have any place in a treacly love story where it's a complete aside (and an asspull happy ending for the third leg of a poorly developed love triangle) BUT that's about failure of execution, not concept.

tl;dr, Pedowolf could be a good plot point, if somebody who knew WTF they were doing wrote it. Please don't damn all authors (or dark ideas) just because this one's a special snowflake and dropped the friggin' ball.

I find Twilight so infuriating because of all the wasted potential, for all the things you said.

I see your point about horror, but this is my problem... I'm pretty sure that most horror writers write what they do being fully aware that they're writing to scare people, or to disgust them or provoke a visceral reaction. In other words, they know that they're writing terrible things, and that's the point.

With SMeyers, I'm not sure she's aware that all of those things (abusive stalker boyfriend, pedo werewolves, etc.) aren't awesome and romantic. There's an awareless that's lacking in her work, and it's been absent from the very beginning. Unlike horror writers who write monsters, I doubt very much that SMeyers wrote Edward to be a genuine monster-- just the opposite.

THAT'S what people are damning, I think. It's the difference between a person writing a story about a serial killer who eats peoples' livers because that's freaky, and a person writing a story about a serial killer who eats peoples' livers because the writer thinks that would be sooooooo romantic.

I'm 99.99% sure that the entire werewolf imprinting thing was a result of S. Meyer trying to figure out how Bella could have both Jacob and Edward. God knows she couldn't be polyamorous, that would just be weird!

Inappropriate values that go against good christian marrige.

Yeah, I know. Thank goodness she came up with the imprinting on a small child concept to save us all from the ickyness of polyamory. *eyeroll*

What I don't understand about all of this is the following: Where was her editor? Where was her literary agent? Where was her publisher or ANYONE from her publishing house, stopping this mess?

Why did no one read this and say: "Um, Stephenie... we should talk. You can't write stuff like that because it's basically pedophilia".

Does the US not have any laws against stuff like that? I'm just wondering how she was able to get that into publication.

I suspect that she got it in under the technicality that it *wasn't* pedophilia because 'Rene had to love Jacob before he'd [romantically] love her!' combined with the fact she was, by that point, a pretty big name author, iirc.

Even then, I don't think it would technically be illegal to publish it [considering the circumstances] unless it could be considered child porn - which, while I've never read that far in the series, I sort of doubt there was anything strong enough that it could be considered that.

I'm pretty sure that the publication of Breaking Dawn constitutes a genuine shitty miracle.

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