fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2002 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2002 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #286.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - text comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

That scenario, where someone genuinely doesn't know something and truly through pure ignorance without any thought or intention of malice or offending anyone, sincerely apologizes for saying something hurtful or prejudiced - without whining about the negative reaction or getting defensive and huffy about how people are just being so mean and reactionary - is a very, very rare one to see, and when it does occur people tend to accept the apology and even give advice or information without ragging on them too much.

Though you're coming across as one of the people that feels like they're entitled to have people be nice and willing to educate them, so I feel this comment may be a waste of effort.

What is wrong with being nice and willing to educate? If someone says something offensive unknowingly, what is so bad about saying "this is not a good thing to say because...." It just makes matters worse to jump on someone, call them names and go off on a angry rant.

It just sets a tone of negativity and makes things worse. Telling someone to go fuck themselves really doesn't open the door to acceptance and tolerance. You can point out that someone is being offensive without being offensive yourself. Two wrongs don't make a right, and blah blah blah.

I understand not wanting to feel like some kind of "answer person" for SJ, it isn't anyone's "job" or obligation to be an encyclopedia for what is right and wrong. That is certainly anyone's right, but it's all in how you handle the situation that defines the situation. Random yelling, screeching and swearing automatically shuts down any sort of productive discussion.

All too often, people (trolls or misguided people) use the SJW label as an excuse to say things equally as hateful and ugly as the original comment. It's extremely hypocritical for someone who claims to be part of the social justice movement to run around screaming "OMG YOU ARE A RACIST HOMOPHOBIC SEXIST CUNT!!! DIE YOU FUCKING SCUM LOSER WHORE!!!" Those people are so misguided that they believe that the way achieve "equality" is to shout down every person who says something they don't like. Or those people are just simple trolls hiding behind the guise of SJW. Either way, it hurts the reputation of the people who are truly social justice advocates.

If you want things to change and people to be more tolerant and sensitive to the culture/lifestyles of others, you should want to be an example. Making yourself some kind of self appointed warrior who's ready and waiting to pounce on someone or become part of the bandwagon/dogpile/hivemind, isn't going to help anyone.

But by all means, feel free to continue on the "warrior" path, but don't be surprised when that comes back on you. Don't be surprised if you feel oppressed or bullied by others because they aren't going to put up with screeching and screaming in the name of justice.

I try to talk to people in the manner they deserve to be talked to. I judge them on their actions and words and respond accordingly. If you put out a logical, respectful, reasonable argument, I may disagree with you, but I will disagree in a respectful, logical, reasonable way. However, if someone is going to go into an insult laden manifesto, ranting and raving, and being disrepectful, I will give that right back.

I have no patience for hypocrites or trolls and I am not afraid to throw a bit of internet karma their way. Does that make me a bully? Maybe, probably to some, and I am okay with that. But you know what, if you are nice to me, I'll be nice to you...problem solved.

It just makes matters worse to jump on someone, call them names and go off on a angry rant.

This. If someone starts yelling at me and cursing at me for saying something wrong when I genuinely didn't know I was saying anything wrong, it's going to make me less likely to care about offending them in the future.

Petty? Sure. idgaf. You don't care about my feelings, why the hell should I care about yours?

What is wrong with being nice and willing to educate? If someone says something offensive unknowingly, what is so bad about saying "this is not a good thing to say because...."

No one is saying there's anything wrong with being nice and willing to educate. People that have endless patience and goodwill like that are wonderful, as far as I'm concerned.

The problem is when you say everyone should be so patient and willing to put up with entitlement and bigotry in the interests of educating people.

This idea of "well if you get mad and upset, you just reflect badly on the whole movement!!!" is really offensive, actually. It's suggesting that if, for example, I get angry with a guy for calling me or another woman a slut and I don't have endless patience and a willingness to compromise or try to see things from his side, that means it's okay for him to keep calling women sluts because it's all my fault for not being nice enough when telling him off that he just won't try to learn what's wrong with what he said.

True, there are SJWs that use social justice as an excuse to be trolly shits. But I find that people tend to exaggerate the amount of situations that actually are that way. See, for example, anon linking to curseangel's comments.

This cult of nice thing, where you characterize people that get angry about bigotry and refuse to apologize for that anger as 'screeching' and 'irrational' is part of the problem. It's part of the reason offensive behaviour and bigotry are still so widespread - it's considered more socially acceptable to be a bigot than it is to get upset at bigots.

This idea of "well if you get mad and upset, you just reflect badly on the whole movement!!!" is really offensive, actually.

Super late.

I am speaking of extreme cases of trolling and misguided people. I'm sorry that I clumped your opinion in with the shouting extremists.

I do see your point, everyone is free to react in whatever way they choose. You are right, no one should be obligated to feel empathy for someone who says hateful things. No one should feel obligated to be in the "cult of nice," when it comes to true bigoted jerks. Because, honestly, those people are full of hate and ugliness, and would love nothing more than to push your buttons. It's the true bigots that you cannot reason with, who will lol at the "cult of nice" and the "educate yourself" in an equal manner.

But when an ignorant or uneducated comment/thought/opinion is made, from my experience, it tends to turn into a negative spiral and a festering pool of insults.

I think people just need to be able to filter out who could benefit from "education" from the people who are just pushing buttons and being hateful. I think that is the biggest problem, is that to some, there is no middle ground. Some people can't or won't see beyond the offensive word or action and just react on that.

Real life CSB...a friend was looking at a magazine and said "this baby is so cute...look at his [slur for Asian] eyes." It was obvious that she was saying something nice, but just didn't know that the "Asian C- Word" was a slur or insult. My jaw dropped and I said, "what did you say???" and she repeated it. I told her not to say that word and that is was like the N-word for Asians. She felt horrible and had no idea that she was being offensive. Now if I had yelled at her and told her to GTFO and cut off all ties to her, would she have learned anything? No, if anything it would have left her confused and bewildered and she would continue to use that word.

[ SECRET POST #2002 ]

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