fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2005 ]

[ SECRET POST #2005 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2005 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06. [nf]

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08. http://i.imgur.com/H1X1Z.gif
[linked because uh not sure if this is porn or not; live action]

__________________________________________________

09. http://i.imgur.com/pNcu1.jpg
[porn of the drawn variety - Tintin]

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [SPOILER WARNING for Hourou Musuko]

__________________________________________________

12. [SPOILER WARNING for Prometheus]

__________________________________________________

13. [SPOILER WARNING for Homestuck]

__________________________________________________

14. [SPOILER WARNING for Avengers]

__________________________________________________

15. [SPOILER WARNING for Merlin]

__________________________________________________

16. [SPOILER WARNING for Tangled]

__________________________________________________

[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

17. [WARNING for ... pretty sure this has something to do with rape]

__________________________________________________

18. [WARNING for rape]

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #286.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Obviously you were blessed with a non-manipulative, non-abusive mother. The rest of us recognize that subversive, incessant abuse all too well. Mental/emotional abuse is just as damaging as physical abuse, and possibly more so, which your secret highlights all too well. If someone punches you, you have the injuries or the pain to show for it. If someone constantly puts you down and undermines your confidence and self-image and your very judgment, sometimes you aren't sure they aren't right.

Gothel isn't your mother.

No, technically she isn't anyone's mother. But she's still a fictional representation of very real people who treat their children this way, and it's hurtful, damaging, and leaves lasting effects for life.

+1. You explained it the best out of anyone. I remember watching the film and it felt uncomfortably familiar. Unless you've dealt with it for years and years, it's very hard to explain how it can be equally damaging, but it takes a long time to really make an impact.

+1 I have a great non-abusive mother, but the abuse in Tangled is really subtle, from the insults to the fact Gothel only shows Rapunzel affection if it's to Rapunzel's hair. It's not super obvious at first glance, but Gothel is an abusive mother.

DA

My mother was neither manipulative nor abusive while raising me, and even I recognize that Gothel is an abusive mother. You seriously don't even have to have lived through it yourself to recognize that there's something deeply wrong about that entire situation.

This is probably a little off-topic, but how can you tell when they were right and when they weren't? I'm still trying to figure that out.

If you felt like you were punched in the gut and felt like they either betrayed you and hurt you or that you were a failure and an inconvenience, they were either wrong or took a flaw of yours, exaggerated it beyond what it really was and threw it at you in a way they knew would hurt you, in a moment and with words that you weren't ready to hear.

And that's wrong. Even when you reprimand someone to steer them the right way, there is such a thing as aiming for where it hurts more.

Or OP could be in denial about a Gothel-like character in her own life.

This was my first thought as well.

This isn't the first time we get a secret like this, and this is always the first thought that crosses my mind every time I read one of them.

I think it's the desperate undertone of trying to justify Gothel's actions, which sounds like someone trying to excuse a loved one's actions.

She's a character and a relationship that hit home with many viewers, and it must hurt a fuckton to admit that someone you love, someone who probably really does love you (unlike Gothel with Rapunzel, because life is sometimes messy like that), could hurt you like that.

It's to admit that people that you respected (or feared), who you looked up to can be imperfect, and that they might have been guiding you wrong all along. I've never been in that situation, but I try to imagine it and it's terrifying. It's like realizing that a big part of your life was a lie, so what could you do? Where could you go next?

Please tell me more about how you guys majored in armchair psychology.

Some people are being really stupid (including the commenter who said that the OP should never have kids, wtf). Everyone seems to agree that this is what abusers do, they give you just enough reason to say "But they do X, Y and Z! They're not that bad!"... so why would anyone spot that behaviour who's not familiar with the topic? Why can't people fall for a "fictional abuser" without being in super denial about their real life?

Because usually it's easier to detect that a relationship is abusive when you're not part of it, when, like it's the case with watching the movie, you see *all* of the relationship. And not just the nice front that the abuser will put up when they're outside.

Which doesn't answer my question.

If it's easy to pinpoint an abusive relationship from the outside, the odds are that someone who is unable to see the abusive part in the one portrayed in this movie (hello, locking up someone for life?) is probably in a similar relationship.

Not 100% odds, but more likely than someone having been 'blessed with a non-manipulative, non-abusive mother.'

See the secret a few posts ago by someone who only realized their mother was abusive after reading all the comments about Gothel being so.

(also apologies for my icon, but I only have 2 at the moment and none is appropriate. That reminds me that I have to upload at least one another, a neutral one).

(no subject)

world_eater - 2012-06-30 17:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

hiyami - 2012-06-30 17:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

world_eater - 2012-06-30 17:18 (UTC) - Expand

Honestly: which part of kidnapping a child, lying to them, keeping them locked up and away from the world, constantly putting them down and undermining their confidence so that they would never try to leave - and doing so solely for one's own benefit - and then putting them in chains when they try to take their life in their own hands - makes her "not that bad of a mother"?

I think Gothel is a very interesting character - they really were on to something when they came up with her as the villain - but I find it honestly worrying that anyone may think she was anywhere near an even vaguely decent parent.

Huh, that is weird, I could've sworn I never said such a thing ;)

(no subject)

pengychan - 2012-06-30 17:24 (UTC) - Expand

*shrug* It was just an option, not a diagnosis. But for your information, I didn't major in armchair psychology. I majored in Internet Psychological Diagnosis - so I'm far more qualified to have opinions on this matter. (it was a liberal school)

While i usually think the whole "never have kids" comment is out of line.... if you can't see that Gothel's behaviour is very wrong, then that doesn't speak well for personal parenting skills.

and really? She's a Disney villain. They aren't exactly the most subtle antagonists out there - not that hard to notice.

Personally I found she was one of the more subtle villains, really, even if she was obviously played as one.
I remember one thing that bugs me to this day in the movie is her "the world is dark and cruel" line which made me want to know more because it sounded like there was something behind her nature besides vanity, like maybe she was abused herself or something. I blame the voice acting for that, it's really good.

As visp said, none of us was diagnosing the OP of this secret with anything. We were just pointing out an alternative interpretation to a commenter who basically said, "Wow, you must have had a really cushy childhood with ideal parents, since you don't recognize abuse when you see it."

"Why would anyone spot that behavior who's not familiar with the topic?" I think a person who had a happy childhood with a basically healthy, loving relationship with their parents, or a person who has experienced emotional abuse but got away from the abuser, are almost equally likely to see Gothel's behavior as unhealthy, creepily possessive, selfish and abusive. If you've experienced abuse and you have gained perspective about it by getting away from it, you'll recognize it. If you had a healthy, non-abusive, non-manipulative relationship with your parents, you'll recognize its opposite. But if you had an emotionally abusive parent and don't realize it, then your only model for a good parent-child relationship is the one you were told was good. You lack a perspective from which to judge.

Eh, that's basically what I was calling armchair psychology though, I might not have used the proper word? What you're saying seems such a simplistic look at it.
See, what's bugging me so much about that logic is that I don't have an abusive mother and I never would've classified Gothel as abusive (or noticed the whole nickname, hair-touching, undermining confidence thing. I thought she was just wacky, because Disney villains usually are) and I would guess that it is simply because I'm bad at picking up such things. I refuse to believe I'm the only one who was totally blown away when people commented on that.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-30 20:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

world_eater - 2012-06-30 21:55 (UTC) - Expand

My father was all of that to me. One minute he was the nicest dude you met and the next he would punch my shoulders and stomach because he thought I looked at him funny. He always hit me where the bruises were hidden by my clothes. He told me I was nothing, worthless and that I killed my mom who died of a stroke while having me. Then he turned around, said he was so sorry and bought me gifts to make me feel wanted again.

I'm glad I ran away from home, but I never got my self esteem or confidence back. I feel like everybody's judging everything I do. I take antidepressants. It's Hell just to get up in the morning and go about my day.

"Obviously you were blessed with a non-manipulative, non-abusive mother"

*cough* Parent. My mom was great; my dad, otoh, I swear to gods there were things Gothel said in the movie that have literally come out of his mouth before. :-\

-1 My mom is Gothel's opposite. It broke my heart when Gothel went through all that trouble to bring Rapunzel the rare paint she wanted and I compared it with my own mother who never gave me anything for my birthday because she thinks love doesn't require any effort bigger than providing for my most basic needs (for the record - she's not poor). But I love her anyway because, although she's far from a perfect mother, she's still my mom and I know her own childhood wasn't any better. Some people feel happier having no parent to a flawed one and I respect this, but not everyone does.

Actually, I think that if you had a healthy, non-manipulative, non-abusive relationship with your parents, you may be just as capable of recognizing emotional abuse as someone who has experienced it--because it is so completely the opposite of what you know to be healthy and happy.

On the other hand, someone who has experienced emotional abuse without having been able to get clear of it and gain some perspective may not recognize it. How can they? It's what has been presented to them for years as normal and right--and their abuser may have told them so many times "I'm only doing this for your own good, because I love you more than other parents love their children" that they believe it.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only