[ SECRET POST #198 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #198 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 143 secrets from Secret Submission Post #029.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken links, [ 1 2 ] not!secrets, [ 1 2 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] personal attack.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, July 23rd, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

Excuse me, but I have to say this.

They're the same damn person. They act the same, they have the same mannerisms, they have the same attitude and everything. Can the fandom as a whole just accept that character development is a Good Thing and stop acting like Axel's Not As Badass because we learn why he did the crazy things he did in CoM?

Promise, they're not radically different characters. So it makes me laugh when people say stuff like this.

(frozen comment)

[case]

Can the fandom learn the difference between "sudden change" and "development?" Not all character change is a Good Thing, especially when no one can see how it happened. WHY was Axel suddenly best buddies with Roxas? There was no hint of it at all in CoM. He just WAS. Why? He just IS. Huh? TOO BAD HE JUST IS KHII SAYS SO GRARHWRJHGHJRGHFG.

That's not development. Nothing develops. Time fast-forwards and the players are just forced to accept that "this happened" without getting to see it, how it happened, why it happened, etc.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

IAWTC

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

It wasn't that sudden of a change if you think about it. KH2 is, what, A YEAR LATER? With Axel already having a professed interest in Sora, no one can possibly imagine Axel wanting to get closer to Sora's Nobody?

Yes. That's sudden and not hinted at at all. I was totally wrong, now. You've made me see the error of my ways.

(frozen comment)

[case]

No. Apparently we can't. Professed interest, sure. Best friends? Uh. Pushing it. How the hell do things WITH NO HEARTS (remember, no hearts? (: ) have/make best friends anyway? Explain the logic behind that one? Plus we get no description at all of how their friendship started or what their friendship was even like besides "they eat ice cream together."

Oh, good. That'll be $9.95.

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

Since I'm no longer taking this argument seriously (agree to disagree, yay!), I will say this:

That ice cream is magic, damn you all, magic. >O IT DEFIES LOGIC AND BUILDS FRIENDSHIPS.

(frozen comment)

[case]

Makes as much sense as everything else.

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

No seriously. For Scrooge McDuck to angst over finding it for so long, instead of doing the logical thing and buying some from Twilight Town, we know that's some damn good logic defying stuff.

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

A year, two years, five years, that doesn't matter. The fact is that were this any other character with any other fandom, or had to do with any other pairing, people would be wondering. Do you think that in the span of only one year, someone like, I don't know, Vayne or Kefka or Sephiroth or even Xigbar (just to name a few) would go from cold, egotistical, self-centered, arrogant, manipulative bastards (well, not manipulative as much on Xigbar's part), to a simpering, whining, emotional thing that wanted to be closer to another person?

And if such a change were to occur in them, would it not seem out of character, or slightly suspicious as to the mental state of the writers if such a miraculous change happened with no explanation at all?

If you want an example of development, look at Sora. In the very first part of the first game, back on the Island, he was very naive, very nice, and pretty much an all around good kid with big dreams and a foolish hope to see other worlds. Now think of him at the end of KH2. More mature, serious, and filled with purpose. He isn't what he was back on the islands, and we got to see him grow into that. Would you expect all of that from him the first time he'd shown up in Traverse Town? I think not.

Have Square give development of the relationship as friends, or even show ANYTHING of Axel going from cold hearted, manipulative, evil, backstabbing bastard to the pathetic excuse for a Nobody that he was in KH2 and I might accept it, and even that would be a long shot.

(frozen comment)

[case]

Seriously. When this many people see KHII Axel and go "WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED," obviously somebody writing the damn character DID SOMETHING WRONG.

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I haven't even played very FAR into CoM, and I've beaten KH2. Just from the first encounter with Axel you can tell he's not the same. And when I take into account all I've heard about what he does in CoM, I can only be more sure of this fact.

CoM Axel : KH2 Axel :: Cloud : Zell

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

Meaning:

NOT ALIKE AT ALL EXCEPT PASSINGLY IN APPEARANCE. (2D Axel looks COOLER)

(frozen comment)

[case]

He does. I liked the pixelly CoM one better.

(frozen comment)

[amazingjana.livejournal.com]

*raises hand* >:

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

Personally, the people you listed seemed more villainous to me than Axel ever seemed, so I can't make the connection you're asking me to make. (Kefka >>>>>> Axel, no ifs, ands or buts.)

Also, while this is a moot point, I will say this-- We can't help what the game developers didn't bother to give us. :/ The connection between the two Axels makes sense to me (yes, CoM Axel is meaner, but personally, I don't view Axel as wanting Roxas back, but as wanting that almost feeling back.), but seriously, it's my own personal head canon. And we can argue about head canons all damn day.

Plus-- comparing a side character's development to the main character's development isn't cool. :

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

I did not say that those characters were any better than Axel, but he did kill Vexen with very little good reason, am I not wrong? It is a rather fitting comparison then. But, I suppose there would always be those that would claim a sudden change in Kefka from evil god hell bent on world domination to happy circus clown in one year would say it was development.

And on your comments upon side character development compared to main character development, I give you the Xenosaga series. The main characters develop slowly, but at the same time, so do the side characters, like Allen, Febronia, Juli Mizrahi... Even Hammer and Tony are given more development to explain themselves than was given to the 180 in Axel's personality.

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

... Axel killed Vexen to earn Marluxia's trust. :/ And as most of us have theorized, to stop Vexen from telling Sora the Big Secret of Roxas-- Which was kind of a moot point, because Roxas was a classic example of a useless character.

Eh, I've never played Xenosaga. I'm one of those strange people who actually enjoyed playing Chrono Cross and don't think Chrono Trigger was inherently better.

(frozen comment)

[case]

This is making me want to write bad KH fanfiction. fgakndfgkadjhg

"Riku and Sora's Saturday Date"
Sora: we're 20 years old now
Sora: I LOVE LINKIN PARK
Riku: shut up I hate you dumbass
Sora: bitch
THE END

"WTF that's totally stupid and OOC"
"NO ITS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT"

(frozen comment)

[case]

Plus-- comparing a side character's development to the main character's development isn't cool.

Uhhh so... if Hayner suddenly one day decided he hated the rest of the kids and started beating the crap out of them (even stabbing Pence in the back! see: Vexen) and you got no explanation for that whatsoever, that's completely acceptable in your book?

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

Wow, random example, wtf!

No, what I'm saying with that is that comparing how Hayner changes throughout the series with how Sora changes isn't fair, because Sora gets so much more screen time. The story's dedicated to him, we know his development is going to be executed well because if not, it's a bad game.

Also, I'm arguing under the assumption that, lol, KH2!Axel makes sense to me.

(frozen comment)

[amazingjana.livejournal.com]

penis.

Uhyeah, I'm going to have to side with technophile on this one. It came out of nowhere and no hearts and yeah, you get it, right? The whole thing was just kind of "....wait, what?" for me to really buy it. :/

(frozen comment)

[infringe.livejournal.com]

K, the sarcasm was totally unnecessary, but.

Why do we need to make the connection of Axel wanting to get closer to Roxas because he professed interest in Sora? Wouldn't Roxas, by himself, interest Axel anyway? And yes, a year did pass by, but look. You can't go from a manipulative, cold-hearted, killing bastard to someone who's willing to do anything to get his best friend back. Sure, all the lying & betrayals is in Axel's character, but all because of a best friend? I don't think so. As far as I'm concerned, Axel wouldn't even know what that term means because he's, quite frankly, a Nobody (no hearts, ya dig?).

(frozen comment)

[case]

SARCASM IS NECESSARY THIS IS THE INTARWEBS

(frozen comment)

[infringe.livejournal.com]

I WASN'T AWARE OF THIS FACT

MY SARCASM-O-METER IS BROKEN

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

I KNOW WHAT FIXES THAT!

...

TEA!