[ SECRET POST #2008 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2008 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 088 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[meadowphoenix]

Responsibility about birth control is not equivalent to responsibility about sexual consequences. It is simply one manifestation of that thought process. We are talking about responsibility about sexual consequences.

People believing a certain sex has a responsibility about sexual consequences doesn't have to be stated directly by them to find they have such a premise. Just look at all the thoughts GOT thoughts about how badly Cersei raised Joffrey despite there being another parent and other children that don't behave similarly. The assumption behind this is that Joffrey came from Cersei and therefore she alone is responsible for him. Neither Jaime, who's probably the real dad, nor Robert, who had time to be with his kids even if he didn't take it, get any blame. I hear a few token protests against this assumption and more actual agreement.

[diet_poison]

You brought up responsibility for birth control so I kind of thought that's what we were talking about?

Anyway, I don't really feel like keeping this argument up. I don't think most people *here* believe women are solely responsible for birth control and I doubt most believe they're solely responsible for the products of sex etc. I mean. Even if they did have some of that internalized most wouldn't come here and say that.

The Cersei example is a little weird since Cersei is the one doing the actual parenting, not Jaime. Like idek if Joff knows Jaime is his real father (maybe that comes up later in the books than I've read? but I haven't seen it). Also Joff is a nasty little sociopath which...may be encouraged by either/both of his parents (or others) but isn't necessarily caused by them. I think he was born with at least some of those tendencies.

So now we can go back and forth over and over again about whether people have this internalized opinion or not. But my original point - that people are more likely to be jumped on for implying that women *do* have a fair amount of responsibility for their sexual choices - still stands.

As it is no one "jumped on me", but you certainly did reply with a rather condescending analysis as to why saying something like that was bad...or whatever you said. I've forgotten now and cba go look it up, this whole conversation just seems pointless.

[meadowphoenix]

Yeah, this just seems circular. You may say you're more likely to get jumped "here", but you did so in a way that suggested that people being defensive of women's health choices were being unreasonable. My point is they're not being unreasonable since it's pretty likely women get "be responsible" a lot from society anyway. Nobody talks here as if the internet is a close circuit with no regard as the prevailing view of things in society. No one. Although I should have made it far more clear.

Robert was Joffrey's stated father, and no one blames that douche. People do blame Cersei.

You said I proved your point, which was about being jumped on, with my response, which you found condescending. So yes, you did imply you were jumped on by my response.

[diet_poison]

" but you did so in a way that suggested that people being defensive of women's health choices were being unreasonable."

How is saying "it's wrong to imply that women have *some* responsibility for their actions, including sex" in any way the same thing as getting defensive of women's health choices? I really think you are blowing up my original point into something that was never there.

Good point about Robert. I hadn't thought of that. And yeah, he was a very negligent "father", so he should be blamed for that, ia. (I mean even though it's twisted that he was sort of bullshitted out of having any actual, "trueborn" kids? But he didn't know that during his lifetime, so it's not an excuse for his behavior, and even then...)

[meadowphoenix]

I'm equating the people who would be jumpy with the people who are defensive. I just don't think the jumpy/defensive people are unreasonable. Saying women have some responsibility simply isn't new information.

I'm not saying there aren't circumstances in which mentioning that everyone has responsibility isn't warranted. I just don't think it's warranted in general.