[ SECRET POST #2016 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2016 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #288.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I beg to differ.

Men don't go unmocked for being enthusiastic about stuff. There's the geek stigma, and also let's be real, if a significant amount of guys went wild over Twilight they'd be "creepy pervs".

Yes, Twilight is sexist, but I see it criticised most for having bad writing, bad storytelling, and bad characters.

Part of it could be internalized misogyny but when a LOT of these Twilight "moms" over 30 are obsessed with the franchise, it is very often just self insert wishes.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, but geeks are just portrayed as underdogs and goofy, often lovably goofy, losers not bad people. Also, being a geek isn't even looked on as bad by a lot of people. I'd rather get called a geek than a crazy bitch. And I disagree- TONS of male media is sexual, and yeah, the guys get called creepy and pervy but it's not anywhere near the level of complete disgust everyone has for twilight fans.
What's wrong with some self-insert wishes? I doubt Manly McDudebro is watching Action Movie 7: Revenge of the Revenge and thinking "wow, what great character development" when Blake P. Badass is making out with Penelope Plot Device.

[wauwy]

I'm tasting a good deal of truth in this tea right here.

[wauwy]

I'm going to go further and say I see a lot of "I'm Not Like Those Girls (tm)" when it's other women hating on Twilight fans. Like, lbr, most of us here have embarrassing fandom obsessions and fantasies, but somehow any of them are so much better that what these useless housemarms like, even if they're SUSPICIOUSLY SIMILAR in many ways (the sexually-charged frenzy, for one).

And if the fandom stuff WE'RE obsessed with happens to be traditionally masculine-oriented, like comic books or video games, that makes us even better. Whew, we're not like THOSE girls.

[majorshipper]

Agreeing with you and the comment above. So much.

[loki]

Fuck yes. Can't stand this sexist rationalisation.

[writerserenyty]

Agreed so hard

[jlh]

Could not agree more

[mechanosapience]

In my experience, there are different flavors of geek, some of which are more socially acceptable than others. Gamers, for instance, don't get much flack, but God help you if you play tabletop RPGs.

[thene]

I keep being told this but it's never happened to me, not in 12 years of tabletop. I've heard LARP get a lot more public flack.

[lovelycudy]

I know tabletop RPGs have bad rep, I think it has to do with the fact that videogames are much more popular.

[sandor051.livejournal.com]

Men who are obsessed with things are portrayed as dangerous, pathetic, failures of men.

Women who're obsessed are portrayed in a mocking light sure, but it lacks that certain undercurrent you get with the reverse. It's 'oh those silly wymnz what are they like' but doesn't fundamentally undermine the patriarchal role enforced upon them - whereas a nerdy guy really into gaming or whatever is seen as lacking the very qualities needed to fulfil the gender role enforced upon him.

Like maybe this is one of those weird cultural quirks, but I'm reminded very of seeing arguments like 'oh men get away with crying in the workplace more then women!' that make me wonder.

[meadowphoenix]

Wait, I'm confused as to what you're saying. The patriarchal role enforced upon women being undermined is a good thing. However, "Oh those silly women" is a reinforcement of patriarchal roles, which is a terrible thing. I agree with you that "nerds" are said to lack some gender qualities, primarily masculinity. But the presumption is always that those nerds can gain those gender qualities they lack by some action (which I do think is harmful, but noting that manly qualities are proven by action is important). Reinforcement of gender roles for women mean that society will see those qualities as inherent. Such gender roles are harmful to the spectrum of both genders, but it's much harder to argue against something society thinks is inherent.

Nerds are still valuable assets in entertainment and business, in controlling positions like director/producer/CEO. How many crazy bitches are considered valuable?

[hiyami]

yeah, but geeks are just portrayed as underdogs and goofy, often lovably goofy, losers not bad people.

That's fairly recent. I can assure you that geeks still get mocked heavily in many circles, and are not seen as "loveable", but rather avoided.

But yeah, action flicks are pretty much just excuses for self inserts, preferably with a not so handsome dude getting to boink the very good-looking lady.

On the other hand, unless I'm mistaken I don't think Manly McDudebros are being as vocal about their love than Twilighters or generally female fans of whatever. Maybe because they'll rather be appreciating the movie from their bed with lotion and paper tissue, while female fans will be queuing for hours by the red carpet hoping to get a glimpse of the actors they fancy.

[fuchsiascreams]

I doubt Manly McDudebro is watching Action Movie 7: Revenge of the Revenge and thinking "wow, what great character development" when Blake P. Badass is making out with Penelope Plot Device.


LOL

In support of this, I must admit that my boyfriend regularly sighs wistfully and says things like "I wish I was a superhero" while talking nonstop for hours about some fucking action movie comic book remake that just came out/will come out in the near future.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, Twilight is sexist, but I see it criticised most for having bad writing, bad storytelling, and bad characters.

Okay, I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm just very frustrated: On what planet are people living on where the biggest complaints about Twilight are from a feminist and literary perspective? The ONLY complaints I hear about twilight offline are 1) the fans are too obsessive and 2) it's romantic and icky and Edward sparkles like *insert gay slur here*. That's it. It's all either "bitches be crazy" or "Edward is gay and romance is for icky icky girls with cooties".
Is it just that I'm in high school that these are the main criticisms I'm hearing? Probably not, cause I've heard it from grown men, too. Just.... ugh, most people who hate twilight don't give a shit about writing or sexism. That doesn't make the literary and feminist criticisms less valid, but it is a reason to criticize the "wooohooo Twilight sucks" bandwagon, because it's guilty of an assload of sexism, as well as homophobia and femmephobia, too.

[wauwy]

On what planet are people living on where the biggest complaints about Twilight are from a feminist and literary perspective?

Livejournal and Tumblr.

[(Anonymous)]

I was in high school when Titanic came out, and somehow my English class ended up debating the movie's merits one day. A few of the hardcore nerds hadn't seen it and had no opinion, but as far as I could tell all the girls liked it and all the boys hated it.

My clearest memory of the discussion is the ferocious insistence that Leonardo DiCaprio was gay. I indignantly responded that that had nothing to do with anything. They conceded that it was irrelevant to the movie, but maintained that he had to be gay. I was very, very confused.

[(Anonymous)]

men are in the powerful position, though, so even the "nerdy" ones aren't crushed to the extent that their female counterparts would be.

[(Anonymous)]

exactly what I was trying to say. Yeah, "nerds" get made fun of, but not as much as women doing the same behavior.

[(Anonymous)]

nerd/geek/dork generally equals "weird, but smart/interesting/~quirky~(which is "in" now or whatever" (nerd more than the other too). crazy bitch equals crazy bitch. There's no subtext of intelligence.

[(Anonymous)]

Men are mocked for obsessing over geeky stuff. Twilight is not geeky stuff.

Men are not mocked for being obsessive over acceptable mainstream "male" interests, like sports, or cars, or scantily clad women. Whereas mainstream "female" interests are mocked, and women who are obsessive over them are mocked even more.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. Basically:
man-liking-manly-shit: cool!
woman-liking-girly-shit: mocked
woman-liking-manly-shit: also mocked, and made to feel uncomfortable cause ew no girls allowed in our clubhouse
man-liking-girly-shit: mockedy mocked
man-liking-geeky-shit: mockethed
man-liking-geeky-shit:mocked both by mainstream society and by male nerds who don't want her in their clubhouse

there's overlaps of course, superhero movies would probably be considered both geeky and manly, but basically, if you're not a guy who likes guy stuff, you're going to be made fun of because people are sexist and suck.

(this is a complete generalization and not meant as a personal insult to your cousin Annie who liked comic books, Barbies and basketball and no one ever said anything bad to her so I don't even know what you're talking about you crazy feminazi)

[(Anonymous)]

Well of course they'd be creepy pervs and women wouldn't. Women are essentially children, incapable of possessing thoughts that are threatening beyond "heh, look at this crazy bitch, liking a thing!" Men, though. They're serious business.

Also, implying self insert wishes aren't the entire point of most male-oriented media.

[fuchsiascreams]

Being a nerd at least implies that you're too ~intelligent~ to care about regular people things. Liking Twilight and being a girl automatically makes you a crazy bitch, which has no positive connotations associated with it.