[ SECRET POST #2016 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2016 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #288.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I appreciate anything that takes some of the blame off of teenage girls, since we seem to be considered at least semisatanic by most people, but... idk, I'm probably not going to put this well, I don't like twilight and I don't support the women pictured, but I hate that it's so common for enthusiastic women to be called "crazy bitches" when men can just run wild thoroughly unmocked.

I know it's good to criticize twilight because it's sexist, but there are plenty of sexist "guy" things, too, and let's be real, most people making fun of twilight aren't doing so because it contradicts their feminist ideals, they're doing it because they're 14-year-old boys who think sparkling is gay and are mad that their female classmates are more attracted to Robert Pattinson and Taylor Lautner than they are to them.

just... idk, I really don't want this comment to come off militant and angry or whatever because I completely see your point, but I'm wondering if all this anger about twilight moms isn't coming at least somewhere from internalized misogyny. I'm sure a lot of dads were freaking out about Black Ops last year and it was probably every bit as hilarious, but guys aren't "crazy bitches" when they're obsessed with things.

Again, I'm probably making 0 sense and I'm not trying to insult you or your potential project, I'm just rambling, ignore me....

[(Anonymous)]

but guys aren't "crazy bitches" when they're obsessed with things.

Well, there was that Philadelphia Phillies fan who shot and killed a man for wearing a St. Louis Cardinals jersey after a baseball game a few years ago (in 2009 or 2010). Sounds like "crazy bitch" material to me. Maybe it manifestly differently in different genders?

[wauwy]

uhhh is this really comparable? Like, men don't get that label until they take it to the extreme of shooting people?

[anonymouslyyours]

Pretty sure the original anonymous meant men don't get called "crazy bitches" even when they act like it. Not that only women act that way.

Also way to go to the most extreme example!

not op

[(Anonymous)]

the point was that guys can get away with being fanatics over something and acting like morons than women can, because then they're just "obsessive crazy bitches"

[(Anonymous)]

That is indeed crazy bitch material, and guys act like crazy bitches all the time, but my point was that they don't get called on it as much. I mean, I'm sure that guy got called out (seriously what the fuck), but Twilight fans don't have to murder people to be made fun of, and sports fans can get away with all 31 flavors of batshit cray and still be considered normal.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, murdering someone is just like being obsessed with Twilight

[wauwy]

I've been uncomfortable with the vitriol directed toward Twilight and its fans for a long time too, anon.

[anonymouslyyours]

And Justin Bieber. Wahhh teenage girls don't have the same taste as twenty-something men clearly we should make jokes about killing/physically assaulting them. My taste is the only taste!

If those same fans were up in their music and entertainment they would be complaining even louder. People just like being elistist asses and teenage girls are easy targets.

[(Anonymous)]

I beg to differ.

Men don't go unmocked for being enthusiastic about stuff. There's the geek stigma, and also let's be real, if a significant amount of guys went wild over Twilight they'd be "creepy pervs".

Yes, Twilight is sexist, but I see it criticised most for having bad writing, bad storytelling, and bad characters.

Part of it could be internalized misogyny but when a LOT of these Twilight "moms" over 30 are obsessed with the franchise, it is very often just self insert wishes.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, but geeks are just portrayed as underdogs and goofy, often lovably goofy, losers not bad people. Also, being a geek isn't even looked on as bad by a lot of people. I'd rather get called a geek than a crazy bitch. And I disagree- TONS of male media is sexual, and yeah, the guys get called creepy and pervy but it's not anywhere near the level of complete disgust everyone has for twilight fans.
What's wrong with some self-insert wishes? I doubt Manly McDudebro is watching Action Movie 7: Revenge of the Revenge and thinking "wow, what great character development" when Blake P. Badass is making out with Penelope Plot Device.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, Twilight is sexist, but I see it criticised most for having bad writing, bad storytelling, and bad characters.

Okay, I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm just very frustrated: On what planet are people living on where the biggest complaints about Twilight are from a feminist and literary perspective? The ONLY complaints I hear about twilight offline are 1) the fans are too obsessive and 2) it's romantic and icky and Edward sparkles like *insert gay slur here*. That's it. It's all either "bitches be crazy" or "Edward is gay and romance is for icky icky girls with cooties".
Is it just that I'm in high school that these are the main criticisms I'm hearing? Probably not, cause I've heard it from grown men, too. Just.... ugh, most people who hate twilight don't give a shit about writing or sexism. That doesn't make the literary and feminist criticisms less valid, but it is a reason to criticize the "wooohooo Twilight sucks" bandwagon, because it's guilty of an assload of sexism, as well as homophobia and femmephobia, too.

[(Anonymous)]

men are in the powerful position, though, so even the "nerdy" ones aren't crushed to the extent that their female counterparts would be.

[(Anonymous)]

nerd/geek/dork generally equals "weird, but smart/interesting/~quirky~(which is "in" now or whatever" (nerd more than the other too). crazy bitch equals crazy bitch. There's no subtext of intelligence.

[(Anonymous)]

Men are mocked for obsessing over geeky stuff. Twilight is not geeky stuff.

Men are not mocked for being obsessive over acceptable mainstream "male" interests, like sports, or cars, or scantily clad women. Whereas mainstream "female" interests are mocked, and women who are obsessive over them are mocked even more.

[(Anonymous)]

Well of course they'd be creepy pervs and women wouldn't. Women are essentially children, incapable of possessing thoughts that are threatening beyond "heh, look at this crazy bitch, liking a thing!" Men, though. They're serious business.

Also, implying self insert wishes aren't the entire point of most male-oriented media.

[fuchsiascreams]

Being a nerd at least implies that you're too ~intelligent~ to care about regular people things. Liking Twilight and being a girl automatically makes you a crazy bitch, which has no positive connotations associated with it.

[majorshipper]

*applauds* I agree. I don't like Twilight(or a myriad of other young adult-directed things), but I don't understand the irrationally violent bashing.

[(Anonymous)]

I've noticed more misogyny in anti-Twilight camps than in Twilight itself. Even from so-called feminists. They're ragging on about how sexist the books are and then going off about how teen girls are so moronic they need to be spoon-fed proper ideals, as though they saw a cape and thought it could make them fly. They treat all teenaged girls as brainless for liking a book. It's the same internalize misogyny you see from women saying "I don't hang out with other women, they're all so catty and superficial".

[(Anonymous)]

exactly. And I'm not saying that people shouldn't be concerned about teen girls reading something with a bad message about relationships because they might apply it to real relationships, but say "people shouldn't be playing such violent videogames, it will make them violent" and see the reaction you get.

[(Anonymous)]

Men can be stalkers too.

[cleverthylacine]

There's a lot of internalised misogyny involved in Twilight hate--even the people who hate it for supposedly feminist reasons aren't willing to acknowledge that women and girls might not take Twilight any more seriously as a model for life than men and boys take James Bond books and movies!

When it comes to the Twilight moms, though, there's also a fuckload of internalised ageism. Middle-aged women are just supposed to disappear into the background and support their kids and husbands, especially if they're not career women. They're supposed to dress conservatively and be practical and not be sexy or romantic and if they're flashy at all people make fun of them. Teenage girls are allowed to be silly and obsessed in public, but if you're over 35, how dare you have fun and let go and enjoy something frivolous that much? People on F!S and FW are always making rude comments about middle aged women being "too old" for fandom (who do they think keeps fandom sites and businesses running?) and I can't count the stupid arguments in lolita fashion communities with people saying it's perfectly okay for 15-25 year olds to dress like Victorian children but once you hit 35 you're supposed to dress your age--fuck that noise.

I don't have kids so I am technically not a Twilight mom, but I'm over 40 and I wear lolita and I love Twilight and I have no intention of dropping lolita for Chico's or Twilight for Desperate Housewives. :)

I have no doubt that some of the older ladies in Twilight fandom have done inappropriate things because I have never been in a fandom where people--both young girls and older women--didn't do stupid, creepy or inappropriate things. But honestly, that's just how people work--some of them are inappropriate and creepy, but most of them are just trying to have fun.

[celestialchild]

most people making fun of twilight aren't doing so because it contradicts their feminist ideals, they're doing it because they're 14-year-old boys who think sparkling is gay and are mad that their female classmates are more attracted to Robert Pattinson and Taylor Lautner than they are to them.

Highlight, emphasize, underline, state multiple times.

I completely agree that there are many problematic elements in Twilight that deserve to be picked apart and analyzed, but the vast majority of people who criticize both it, and the fans, are doing so because of the sexist ideology that says girly things are "silly, ridiculous, and will never measure up". And neither will the fans.

If Twilight has demonstrated anything valuable, it is that women of ALL AGES enjoy having books that are about and directed at them, their interests and dreams and aspirations. (Not that these books cater to all women, of course). And this has made a great many people uncomfortable.

[(Anonymous)]

Men don't get mocked?! Sure, and that's why they are called "man-children" and told to grow up and basicly told nobody would want to be in a relationship with them for enjoying things some people consider to only be for children.

But sure, they don't get mocked. /sarkasm

[fuchsiascreams]

I get what you're saying and to be honest, I agree with you, but I find this a really weird forum to bring this up in.. like, Twilight? Really?