fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2022 ]

[ SECRET POST #2022 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2022 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 088 secrets from Secret Submission Post #289.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You get it! Thank you.

I doubt I'd particularly like it even if not for the needle in a haystack issue, but yeah, I get that it can be done well.

A big part of my squick that I didn't even want to get into is the subset of h/c about disability. The whole concept of that just makes my skin crawl. I don't know if any other person with a disability feels the same as me and I'm certainly not saying it's wrong to write it or enjoy it. But PERSONALLY (emphasizing the shit out of that word on purpose, there), I'd honestly rather be sexually fetishized than fetishized as an object of caring like that. It's just really creepy to me and brings up so many stereotypes I really have a strong, visceral reaction.

I made the mistake of bringing this up when a (really, really good) fic about it was the absolute darling of my fandom, and... yeah. I'd hoped that people might understand I was saying I was bothered and found it problematic even though it was one of those needles in the haystack, but people thought I was SJWing pointlessly about disability.

Le sigh.

This anon with a disability definitely agrees! it's always the coddling that gets me. That in h/c fic the one being comfort seems to need to be coddled (not always a character with a disability though) - and everyone seems to think this is okay or appropriate. Me? it makes my skin crawl because I HATE HATE HATE the idea of being coddled or treated like I can't take care of myself and that's what the fics seem to reduce people to - being incapable of functioning without someone to coddle them and tell them everything is going to be okay.

Thank you. :-) I think a lot of us have a love-hate, or maybe just a hate-hate, relationship with coddling, because it's so easy for it to be creepy and demeaning.

Yeah. I can take care of myself. I mean, open doors for me, that's nice to do for EVERYONE, but some 'fics are like, people spoonfeeding perfectly capable people and it just reminds me of that one scene in Glee where Terri tries to feed Will and play "baby" with him when he has the flu. Creeped me the fuck out.

This is my biggest problem with h/c. I technically like the genre. I like it when the people who do it have some grasp of psychology or any of the ways a person actually work. The comfort side of hurt is a complicated, resentful, difficult place to be, and most fics just sugar coat and do the healing sex thing, which is honestly pretty boring. Boring for me, anyway, as I can be far more removed from the subject than some others.

And yes. Coddling is a very bad thing to do to someone. Because it belittles them, but also because the ones who enjoy it can tend to latch on and become incapable of helping themselves. But no fic ever deals with these themes. Sometimes I think about doing it. Just because I know that most readers would flip their shit in rage and the first sign of frustrated victim blaming/abandonment/self destruction which are very awful but very unfortunately real.

That would be kind of awesome. :-) Especially frustrated!caregiver.

It's a lot more difficult to explain when you're a person dealing with disability. My disability is really mild (chronic tendinitis, arthritis in both arms, can't lift more than 3lbs, etc) but even coming from that, someone "taking care" of you or another person does not make that disability go away, nor does it make it better. I mean, I could be married, have a degree, be rich, and be a very happy person, but my arms are still going to spend the majority of the day burning/hurting. Nothing is ever going to change that.

Just like in H/C 'fic, people don't like to address the permanency of, say, eating disorders. Those things just don't go away, and they definitely won't go away because someone they like/crush on asks them to the movies, or to marry them, or to have sex with them. It just doesn't work like that. (It'd be nice if it did, but it definitely doesn't!)

I mean, people deal with eating disorders for years. If you've had one for a long enough period of time, you might be fighting it for the rest of your life. Someone needs to support you, be there for you when you need them, not baby you and take care of you like you're some kind of invalid who can't think for yourself.

H/C fic can be really good (from the PoV from someone who likes it), but like I said, so much of it is crap that it's like...ugh, no thanks. I don't want to read about A losing his leg in the war and B makes it all better with magical amazing sex. No. JUST. NO. There is so much to something like losing a leg, or losing the ability to walk, or in dealing with eating disorders, the aftermath of spousal abuse, assault, rape, surviving a terrible natural disaster, a plague, etc, that people, 99% of the time, skip past the actual emotional stuff. And when they DO focus on the emotional stuff, they focus on all the wrong things.

I mean, if A loses his leg, I don't think he's thinking, "Well shit, I'll never have sex with B."

No, he's probably thinking, fuck, how am I going to get around? How am I going to drive a car/ride a horse/shoot a gun/get to the store/go to the bathroom/go on a date/stand at the stove to cook, and so many other things it's not even funny. A's not sinking into depression and/or his thoughts just because of one small thing. There are so many thoughts roiling through someone's head when they go through something like that, that unless you read an auto-biography or ten, or have been through it yourself, you really can't write it convincingly for me.

That said, I used to write silly cute fluffy H/C fic-- always about the silly things like splinters and a cold, etc-- and when I did try more serious stuff, I made sure to try and do it right. I was a new writer back then, though, so I probably failed, but I can at least say that I tried to focus on what I thought were the important things.

I mean, I write fanfic because I LOVE the characters. I love them so much that writing things that hurt them also hurts me. There have been scenes in 'fics that I've written that were difficult or painful to write, and some have even made me cry. The thoughts and emotions of a character are my favorite things to write, though. Ask to write an action scene and it's so wordy it'd make a reader vomit. XD

The creepy stereotypes thing really annoys me in H/C fic. It's why most of the time I hit back on fics before I'm even past the first two paragraphs. They're usually not worth my time when they're full of weird "caring-for-someone-else" creepy...vibes. I don't know how to explain it. Like, take care of someone else, yeah. But sometimes it just weirds me out the way some people write it.

omeone "taking care" of you or another person does not make that disability go away, nor does it make it better.

Pardon me for pulling out one tiny snippet of a wonderful comment and keying on it... but the other thing is:

I was born with my disability. I work in disability advocacy. I consider myself a proud member of the disability community. And whenever I see disability h/c fic, even when it's good...

...my mind just has to pipe up with "Where are the disabled characters who are part of the community? The movement? The ADAPTers? Where are the loud proud angry fierce fighters who subscribe to the social model, not the medical? Where am I? Where are the people in chairs and scooters, with canes and walkers who have marched beside me, whether standing or rolling or something else entirely, saying with hands or mouths or machines THIS IS HOW I AM AND I AM NO MISTAKE?"

I mean, yeah, if the idea of the fic is "cuddle the hurt person" we're not gonna be there. And yeah, in a fandom for a show or movie set in its own universe, there may not be an ADA. I get all that.

But that just seems... like a whole aspect of a population is just Not There At All because it's inconvenient. Because we're no fun when we're not little doll babies to soothe.

And, well, even in an alternate universe I still think you could have characters who subscribe to something more like the social model. Even if there is no civil rights movement going on, I still think a particularly fiery character could be all "I piss on your pity, and I don't need your fucking cure."

I'm not saying it's bad to have characters who aren't all full of vim and vinegar. I just think it's sad, and maybe a little funny-smelling to the SJish bits of my nose, to see the ones who need cuddling with so little sign of the spitfires.

Anon who replied/agreed with you above.

THIS SO MUCH!

And okay I GET that a person who is suddenly disabled after a long time of not is going to go through some period of needing comfort, but still coddling WILL NOT HELP them. Because at some point they're going to have to pick themselves up and learn how to live with their disability. Coddling is just a waste of time that could be better spent learning how to live with the disability. Because there is still a life to be lived.

+1....and this fannish oversight is what led directly to secret #13 IMO.

The self-entitled SJWers (I'm not saying you're one of them, stainless, don't get me wrong) distract/verbally abuse people over words that aren't even offensive, as an excuse for their privileged TAB backsides to justify not DOING SOMETHING that will change attitudes at their base level. Instead, they beat everybody about the head with their Orwellian Newspeak /Ministry of Truth doublethink games they like to play as some weird sort of codependency bingo card filler.

I shudder to think what those facing this generation of social workers will have to go through Smothering nanny-state full of Chicken Soup for the Supercrip Soul doesn't even come close to describing it....

"Supercrip"

Fuck you.

DA

Okay I'm missing something with this word. Explain?

it's short for supercripple, maybe?

Why fuck you? Considering that as far as I can tell the anon up there was using the term to make fun of the concept, as most people who critique it do.

I mean, the anon clearly dislikes SJW types, but I don't think I've ever heard "supercrip" used by anyone BUT people with disabilities mocking the whole "ooooh you inspiiiiiire us just by breathiiiiiiiiiing" thing.

I agree completely. I really, really wanna see H/C fics that are more about just supporting someone who doesn't feel they need help. That would be so insanely awesome. I mean, even without the kind of model, I'm sure there were plenty of disabled or people who were disadvantaged in our own history who stood up and said, hey, I am my own person, I can do this!

<3

I like you and this thread. I wish I had a DW account just so I could friend you ro something so I can remember you're a cool person.

Aww. Thank you, Anon! <33333

/hug

YES. ALL OF THIS.

I'm not disabled, but I have... psychological issues. Which are also common in h/c. And it makes me cringe when I see fic where a character is depressed or suicidal or whatever, but then they have MAGICAL HEALING SEX with the object of their affections, and suddenly everything is OK. It's like, what is this? Are you saying that all I need to be mentally healthy is a significant other to bone? Uh, no thanks.

I get that it's a nice fantasy for people who do like it, and I won't begrudge them that, but it's not for me. I'm tired of saying "I don't like this" and getting "YOU HAVEN'T FOUND THE GOOD STUFF YET" in reply, and that applies to lots of things, not just fanfiction.

I'm a big fan of h/c, and it makes me really angry when h/c as a whole is characterized as healing-sock. Most h/c is GEN. Also, most h/c doesn't involve disabilities, physical or mental. Yes, there's some crappy fic out there where a serious illness or injury is somehow healed by a good fuck, but they're so rare, at least in any fandom I've ever been in. Maybe in anime fandoms or something, since they seem to be full of bad fic. Most h/c is about relatively minor and temporary issues, and most h/c about disabilities/chronic illnesses isn't about healing them. Plenty of people who have disabilities or chronic illnesses read and write h/c because it allows them to process things through fiction or for wish-fulfillment fantasies.

The main thing is that it's NOT ALL ABOUT SEX. I find it offensive that gen fic, which I really do believe is the majority of h/c, is completely ignored by people who have too much fun being offended by their vision of h/c as healing cock. Also, fuck you very much for the kink shaming.

lolwut. how could anything in that comment be construed as kink shaming.

goddamn SJWs.

Lolwut? I thought the "SJWs" were supposed to be the people going "stop having ~~fun~~ porn guys, your fic is problematic". Standing up for kinksters has never been something I've ever seen social justice folks go to bat for.

The term really IS losing all meaning around here.

I'm this anon: http://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/641003.html?thread=562762475#cmt562762475 - the one who hates coddling.

In all of my comments I was talking about the GEN fic I've read... and they often aren't about disabilities either. It's the coddling that makes me want to throw up.

I don't know. Any time I've ever seen a "h/c bingo" community I've been hard-pressed to find a card that doesn't have stuff like "blindness" right next to stuff like "alien virus."

Which I think is weird and maybe a little problematic. But unlike some, I don't think "problematic" = "don't write it." I think it means, hey fandom, can we have a conversation? Which we're having in this thread, so I'm good. No need to change what you like.

I know you weren't speaking to me, but personally? I'm not trying to speak for all people with disabilities. Just myself. And I do know that some pwd like h/c as wish fulfillment. And that's OK too. I just, as I said, wish that there were more varied representations. Surely that's no sin, and doesn't involve telling you what to write or read?

I just find most of what I've seen upsetting and even mildly triggering, so I don't like it. Which is why I said "yes" to a secret saying, um, "I don't like this."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2022 ]

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