[ SECRET POST #2033 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2033 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Mortal Kombat]


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03.


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04.


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05.
[The Young and the Restless]


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06.


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07.
[Firefly, Joss Whedon; Sherlock BBC, Steven Moffat]


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08. http://i.imgur.com/Je2qV.png
[not really porny but implied underage sexual stuff; photomanip; snape/hermione]


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09.


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10.


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11.


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12.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]












13. [SPOILER WARNING for Pokemon Black/White]



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14. [SPOILER WARNING for Kurau: Phantom Memory]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













15. [WARNING for rape]



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16. [WARNING for suicide]



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17. [WARNING for incest]

[Kono Naka ni Hikari, Imouto ga Iru!]


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18. [WARNING for animal death/abuse?]

[Eden Lake]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #290.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[la_petite_singe]

I love Irene; haters can suck it. Some of the arguments about why she's problematic are reasonable, but there are other ways of seeing it/her and--more importantly--everyone hates her seems 100% focused on Moffat and his comments and opinions. I see hardly anyone caring about what Lara thinks. Very telling, IMO. And besides, people were saying "UGH, HE'S GONNA FUCK IT UP" before the episode even premiered, so...not a good sign. As I don't watch DW I don't think I quite have the right to comment on trends of misogyny on Moffat's work, but I still didn't like the way people assumed it would be bad before giving it a chance. Anyway, love both of these gals.

[fenm]

I see hardly anyone caring about what Lara thinks.

If it helps, I don't care about what Benedict Cumberbatch or Martin Freeman think about their characters, either.

[(Anonymous)]

Moffat's works have consistently been incredibly sexist in their portrayal and treatment of female characters, and his work on Doctor Who and the prior season of Sherlock have been no exceptions; his interviews and personal comments have also been very sexist.

I said before it aired that Moffat was going to "fuck it up" because he has a long history of fucking up every single female character he has ever written, up to and including forcing existing female characters on television shows he guest writes for out of character in ways that are sexist and forcing existing male characters out of character in order to have them treat said female characters in a sexist way (see: Doctor Who 2x04: The Girl in the Fireplace, 3x10: Blink, etc). I have literally never seen one single female character in anything he has written or been responsible for (that I have seen) who was not either incredibly sexist, or at the very least BOTH a background character and still problematic in some ways.

I think I have a right to say, "This guy has never written a female character who wasn't portrayed in a sexist way, so I don't think he'll suddenly start now."

It turns out I was right -- Moffat did fuck it up. His portrayal of Irene is so full of sexism that I can barely make it through the episode. It sucked. I'm sorry if you liked it, but it was sexist and horrible on that level.

[(Anonymous)]

and including forcing existing female characters ... out of character in ways that are sexist and forcing existing male characters out of character... (see: ... 3x10: Blink ...

Who was an existing character, male or female, that had any screentime of note in Blink? Martha and the Doctor are there for, like, 5 minutes, and everyone else was new/one-shot.

[(Anonymous)]

...uh, that was meant to be a question. Just for the record. Who was a pre-established character who got warped out of character to be sexist in Blink?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

The Doctor. The way he treats Martha is pretty abysmal, forcing her to work to support him in a time when she probably would have encountered at least some racism, sexism and hardship, while he apparently just tinkered around with stuff for a really long time and sent messages to Sally Sparrow.

I mean, he can be absent-minded, but he's not actually that much of a jerk. He'd realize that the whole "we need to eat and have some semblance of a roof over our heads" thing meant he needed to do something as well, even if it meant sonicking an ATM instead of getting a proper job.

And of course, there is a metric ton of sexism involved in the portrayal of Sally Sparrow and her friend, Moffat's original girls of the episode.

[fenm]

Given how often the Doctor's on Earth (and England, specifically), I'm not sure why he doesn't just carry money with him. Given that his pockets are bigger on the inside (or at least they were in old school Who--are they still doing that? I've watched the new series, but I cant recall an episode that's shown this), he could carry quite a lot...

[(Anonymous)]

What was sexist about the way Sally and her friend were portrayed? I love Blink and I've watched it several times, the latter few times knowing that it's considered extremely sexist by a lot of fans, so I looked for the sexism and still couldn't find it. And I've never seen anyone say why they find those characters' treatment sexist, they just do. Period.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

For them.. well, let me cite an article here because I don't really have a ton of time right now:

It's the way women are written as if they have absolutely no control over what happens in their life at all - and they're fine with that.

[...] Throughout the course of the episode, while remaining quite superhuman in the way she deals with every obstacle, [Sally is] firm about her disinterest in her unwitting sidekick Larry. And yet, once the adventure's over, she loops her arm through his, all done with saving the world and ready to run a shop. No explanation.

[...] Her friend Kathy makes a similarly nonsensical choice, when the Weeping Angels toss her back to 19th-century Hull and she finds herself alone in a field with a boy named Ben:

KATHY: Are you following me?

BEN: Yeah.

KATHY: Are you gonna stop following me?

BEN: No, I don't think so.

And then - marriage. Just like that.

[/article]

There's also the fact that Sally has really very little personality, except to be superhumanly able to withstand all the pressure and stress she's under and do whatever she needs to, etc. and to of course, throughout the episode, deny that she has interest in the main male character of the episode. Then of course -- oh yeah, out of nowhere, they're hooking up! Of course!

As for Sally's friend, well. Girl is transported back in time. Girl is stalked by guy. Girl... marries guy out of fucking nowhere and dies happily married to him!? Oh yeah. Sounds like a great romance.

Basically all the romances in "Blink" are horrible and based on the idea that women don't actually know what they want. The female characters have no actual agency -- no matter what they say or do, no matter how little they want to be in a relationship with these men, they have no say in the matter. A relationship will happen anyway, whether they like it or not. The men will persist until they give in, because what, does that silly girl honestly think she knows what she wants in a man? How dare she presume. Etc.

It's a rather nasty, but more subtle than usual way of Moffat showing that he has no respect for female agency and doesn't believe women can know what they want, and that men should act in a way that supersedes what women SAY they want because they know better. This shows up time and time again -- but most notably in season five's finale, with Amy's forced pregnancy and childbirth and the Doctor keeping it from her for ages that she's actually NOT Amy.


(Sourced article: Why Steven Moffat Isn't All That (http://io9.com/5022250/why-steven-moffat-isnt-all-that))

[biohazardgirl]

I love Irene too, and I enjoy ASiB, but her character arch is very. . .problematic, and it's important to acknowledge it as such.

Personally, the first time I watched it I loved the whole thing, but now I don't really like the end. In my head, the last few scenes didn't happen, and Irene DID walk out with everything she came for and as she left she announced her passcode or something. Fuck yeah, badass Irene!

Moff really IS misogynistic though, in interviews AND in the media he creates.

And for the record I also take Word of God with a grain of salt.

OP here

[htebazytook]

YES. In the commentary Lara talks all the time about how Irene is damaged and things. Why can't Irene just be a messed up person, and not 'OMG SEXIST'? This is what I'm talking about when I say everyone sees sexism everywhere and fails to even consider the character as a flawed person

Re: OP here

[la_petite_singe]

I also like how she said she was "anti-labellist" about her sexuality--people took her "well, I am [gay]" comment to mean "I'm 100% lesbian and have never ever been with or loved a man" (even though we heard that she had an affair with "both parties" of a married couple earlier in the episode). That's...pretty limiting. I love that moment with John because they're both acknowledging that despite their usual preferences/orientation, they both feel drawn to and connected with Sherlock specifically because of who he is. And it's obvious that he has strong feelings for her too, when he thought he was 'above' that sort of thing. She's messed up and makes terrible choices and all, but same goes for John, Sherlock, Moriarty, everywhere. I just think people are looking at it a bit too literally and not seeing the grays.

Re: OP here

[fenm]

I also like how she said she was "anti-labellist" about her sexuality

Lara might have said that, but Irene does label herself; she says she's gay. And yes, when she said she was gay, people took it to mean she was gay. Given the context (comparing her to a guy vehemently defending his heterosexuality), it would make sense that that meant, "I've never been in love with a man". That's what John is saying, after all, and she's saying, "Yeah, same here". In fact, if the point is to compare her to John, "I've never been in love with a man" is the only way that line makes any sense. And if she's not being compared to John, what's the point of that exchange?

Re: OP here

[la_petite_singe]

I guess I just personally don't interpret "gay" as "100% Kinsey-6 homosexual," and I really don't think we were supposed to in this case, if only just because of her chosen profession and the fact that we heard about her sleeping with other men, etc. I thought her point was twofold--"I generally prefer women and also I don't fall in love because sex means something different to me," and yet here she's finding herself drawn to Sherlock, maybe sexually but also emotionally/intellectually, and that's a surprise because she thought she wasn't interested in that. And similarly, Sherlock is the opposite sexually (not into anyone whereas she's into--or at least been with--men & women), but he too thinks he's 'above' having romantic/sexual/emotional feelings for anyone, but he's wrong. That's proven over the course of the series; he says he's "just got one [friend]," but then in TRF Moriarty points out that he does indeed care about Mrs. Hudson and Greg Lestrade too (but he stupidly underestimates Molly, which is how Sherlock ultimately lives...I think). And he thinks he's too superior to fall prey to normal-people emotions and mistakes and everything, but in that "this is just losing" scene he's clearly just as affected as she is. So...yeah, basically I think it's all about sexual fluidity and also about these three characters discovering feelings, of all sorts, that they didn't know they could have. Sorry for the tl;dr. :P I just have a lot of Irene feelings.

Re: OP here

[fenm]

I guess I just personally don't interpret "gay" as "100% Kinsey-6 homosexual,"

I don't always, either, but again, she's specifically being compared to John in this scene.

Re: OP here

[(Anonymous)]

..you know, calling her "damaged" really just makes it more sexist. I mean obviously the sex worker character must be "damaged," right?

We see sexism WHERE IT IS. jfc. You're just incredibly obtuse.

Re: OP here

[fauxkaren]

Ugh. I hate that trope. Secret Diary of a Call Girl wasn't perfect, but something they did that I liked was that Hannah was just a regular girl who liked sex and liked the money she could make as a call girl. She didn't have some sort of traumatic childhood that made her turn to sex.

OT and late but--

[(Anonymous)]

See, YES. I loved the did that. It was when they repeatedly showed she was incapable of having real, stable relationships with anyone--even someone she'd apparently loved most of her life, who knew for a long time who she was and what he was getting into--thus basically throwing away the example of the Dominatrix in s1 that it went wrong. That bugged me. Grr.