[ SECRET POST #2046 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2046 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 021 secrets from Secret Submission Post #292.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - spam secret ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I never said someone younger than you or your age can't pressure you. It's not an either/or situation. I'm sorry if my comment came across that way; that was never my intention.

"Secondly, not everyone situation with an older partner is pressured into sex; sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. If they are, that's wrong, and it'd still be wrong if they are the same age. But it's unfair to assume that just because a teen has slept which an adult they must have been pressured into it."

The thing is, that a child or a teenager with an adult is a specific case of what you're saying.

I'm not condemning, say, a seventeen year old person with someone in their late twenties, I would hope they're both being careful and there isn't manipulation involved, but with someone younger (12-15, maybe 16, and, of course, anyone younger) it's not just "hoping", it's fearing what I will be doing.

Those are children or persons who are just starting to not be children, and even if they consciously want it, they're not on the same emotional, mental and psychological than an actual adult or an older teenager.

I know this is going to offend modern western sensibilities, but I'm aware that not every such relationship is doomed, BUT

the thing is that the risk of abuse or manipulation, even unconscious, is way too high.

Because not everyone matures the same way, it's faster and safer to make a clear line (the age of consent, that varies from country to country and state to state, but is leaning towards later adolescence) of when not to persecute adults having sex with them, even if not everyone matures at that age, and yeah, it must be terrible frustrating for those that did mature faster, but this way those who aren't ready are safer.

I know it's not perfect or ideal, but I think it beats, say, the ancient Roman tradition of marrying off girls as soon as they had their first menstruation.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank for explaining your position to me. It makes a lot of sense, and I really appreciate your civility. I agree that the age of consent is needed, having younger teens wait a couple years is worth protecting kids.

From my perspective, I just feel like a lot of people want to censor my sexuality. I'm depressed the amount of shaming there is towards the sexuality of women (especially young women/teens like myself).

I'm glad you acknowledge that the current system isn't perfect, and that this isn't a black-or-white issue. But yes, I agree the current system is better than anything I can think of.

Thanks again, I'm really glad you share your side with me, and double thanks for being so patient and polite.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

You're welcome!

I think that this hits home emotionally with a lot of people and that's what causes very, er, passionate responses.

And please don't take this the wrong way, as I realize now through your comments that this is not at all your position, but some of the things you said resemble arguments that real predators and, sadly, their defenders, have said to justify their abuse of persons (in particular children and very young teenagers, but definitely not limited to those age ranges) who were in a very vulnerable position, which is another reason that people reacted this way in the thread.

There is also a very ugly culture of victim-blaming, and those arguments pop up there too ("she wanted it, or else she wouldn't have dressed like that/walked through that street/kissed him/flirted with him/ etc.), and I think people were reacting to that too.

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks, and I do agree with most of what you've said, but I do think there is a difference between the rapist saying 'oh, they wanted it' and the would-be victim saying "I chose this". I mean, if I am the supposed victim, shouldn't my voice and my opinion matter? If I am the one they are trying to protect, shouldn't they listen to my input and feelings rather than silencing me?

Thanks again for the great response, I will try to watch the way I frame my arguments in the future.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Of course your opinion should matter! I think many people think that you wouldn't know what you want, or that you were threatened or scared into lying and saying you consented, so maybe that's a fear lurking in the back of their minds whenever they hear that as a response from someone they expect to be a victim. Like, they're expecting the worst case scenario and that colors their opinion as they read your comments.

It's also very hard to tell over the internet, where we can't see your face and body language to see that you're calm and assertive about your words and not indecisive or maybe over-defensive like one would expect in a worst case scenario.

I'm glad to know that things worked out for you irl. Please don't get discouraged by this thread, this is a very tricky subject to discuss even in the best of moods, and there are always fears and subjective past experiences and opinions getting all mixed up into one sticky mess.

Thanks again for the great response, I will try to watch the way I frame my arguments in the future.

You're welcome, and if it helps, I've caused all sorts of... similarly explosive arguments in the past because I didn't realized that what I said could be understood in a different way than I intended. Both in real life and on the internet! It happens. It sometimes takes a lot of trial and error to figure out how to word things in different places and still get your point across.

[(Anonymous)]

No problem, I think we had a pretty good discussion.

I'm not that discouraged, if every response was just screaming at me rather than addressing my points, maybe; but on the contrary a good chunk of my discussion with people was very intelligent, rational, and open-minded.
So thank you very much for contributing to the discussion.