Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-08-09 06:59 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-08-09 06:59 pm
[ SECRET POST #2046 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2046 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 021 secrets from Secret Submission Post #292.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - spam secret ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 01:29 am (UTC)(link)Secondly, not everyone situation with an older partner is pressured into sex; sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. If they are, that's wrong, and it'd still be wrong if they are the same age. But it's unfair to assume that just because a teen has slept which an adult they must have been pressured into it.
This attitude is harmful because it erases the experiences of those have been pressured into sex by people younger or the same age as them. It's also harmful to a lesser extent to individuals who are in a consensual relationship with someone older of their own freewill, by unnecessarily villianizing everyone in that category.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 01:41 am (UTC)(link)"She came onto me officer!"
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 01:52 am (UTC)(link)As a someone who was guilted into giving her virginity away to a younger man
He was younger yeah, but we were still both teenagers. In fact, I'm a still a teenager, and I'm a CONSENSUAL relationship with a man 10 years my senior.
People like you will condemn a healthy, loving relationship because of an age gap, but ignore when I was forced into sex with another (albeit a year or so younger) teenager.
Classy. Real classy.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:00 am (UTC)(link)You being both teenagers is okay. You and the pedo are not. It's not because of an age gap. It's because you are a minor and he is a fucking GROWN-ASS MAN and it's illegal.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:08 am (UTC)(link)And guess what, I initiated the relationship, I choose to be with him. I choose to have sex with him and I ENJOYED IT.
And you have the audacity to tell me that I'm wrong? That I don't know what I want? Or what I'm doing? I have enough of brain to argue my fucking position, don't I?
How dare you try to censor and deny my sexuality.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 07:33 pm (UTC)(link)You are aware that there are girls that aren't even 12 who have breasts, hips, and menstruate? Their bodies may be 'fully-developed female physically', but their brains sure as fuck aren't and that is the shittiest gauge of whether or not someone is grown up and ready for sex with adults ever, and it's certainly a shitty gauge of whether-or-not someone is a pedophile.
The person who should be denying your sexuality is the adult you propositioned. Teenagers are expected to have sexual feelings, and are expected to want to act on them. Adults should fucking know better.
You may know what you want, but you're not an adult and adults should not be getting sexually involved with you, and hey? Guess what? Part of growing up is learning that you can't always get what you want! Which unfortunately you didn't learn in this case because the guy you propositioned is a pervert (but not a pedophile).
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 08:48 pm (UTC)(link)Honestly, I don't understand why you're being so hostile and unnecessarily volatile. I've managed to have a mature, good discussion with a few others on here.
No matter really, you're just some angry person on the internet. I have the support of my family and boyfriend, and that's what matters. I do appreciate that you have the sense to acknowledge that our relationship is not pedophilia, though.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:13 am (UTC)(link)Just so you know, there's a good handful of countries who have low age of consents, like 12 or 13. It's 16 over here in Canada even.
So yeah, it may or may not be illegal, depending on where you/the other anon is.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:20 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:31 am (UTC)(link)The anon in question is a teenager girl having sex with an adult man, correct?
If she is 16, her relationship would be perfectly legal in my country. Thus, my point being that not all teen/adult relationships are illegal depending on the country you live in.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:22 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:29 am (UTC)(link)Here, in Canada, an adult can have sex with anyone 16 or older.
Then if you're 14-15 you can have sex with anyone within 5 years (so 20 or younger for a 15 year old).
Then if your 12-13 you can have sex with anyone within 2 years.
So here, adults do very much have perfectly legal sex with those under 18.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 01:47 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 01:57 am (UTC)(link)1) I'm a teenager girl
2) I was pressured into sex by teenager boy, about a year or so younger than me
3) I am currently in a consensual relationship that I initiated with an older man
But nice, victim-blaming there. It's good to know I can't be a victim because the guy that manipulated me was younger.
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I personally agree with you... there's a big difference between teenagers in relationships with adults, and pedophilia. Those relationships are often exploitative and abusive, so it makes sense that there's a huge taboo against them, but that doesn't mean it's automatically rape.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:26 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:06 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:14 am (UTC)(link)I never said someone younger than you or your age can't pressure you. It's not an either/or situation. I'm sorry if my comment came across that way; that was never my intention.
"Secondly, not everyone situation with an older partner is pressured into sex; sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. If they are, that's wrong, and it'd still be wrong if they are the same age. But it's unfair to assume that just because a teen has slept which an adult they must have been pressured into it."
The thing is, that a child or a teenager with an adult is a specific case of what you're saying.
I'm not condemning, say, a seventeen year old person with someone in their late twenties, I would hope they're both being careful and there isn't manipulation involved, but with someone younger (12-15, maybe 16, and, of course, anyone younger) it's not just "hoping", it's fearing what I will be doing.
Those are children or persons who are just starting to not be children, and even if they consciously want it, they're not on the same emotional, mental and psychological than an actual adult or an older teenager.
I know this is going to offend modern western sensibilities, but I'm aware that not every such relationship is doomed, BUT
the thing is that the risk of abuse or manipulation, even unconscious, is way too high.
Because not everyone matures the same way, it's faster and safer to make a clear line (the age of consent, that varies from country to country and state to state, but is leaning towards later adolescence) of when not to persecute adults having sex with them, even if not everyone matures at that age, and yeah, it must be terrible frustrating for those that did mature faster, but this way those who aren't ready are safer.
I know it's not perfect or ideal, but I think it beats, say, the ancient Roman tradition of marrying off girls as soon as they had their first menstruation.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:24 am (UTC)(link)From my perspective, I just feel like a lot of people want to censor my sexuality. I'm depressed the amount of shaming there is towards the sexuality of women (especially young women/teens like myself).
I'm glad you acknowledge that the current system isn't perfect, and that this isn't a black-or-white issue. But yes, I agree the current system is better than anything I can think of.
Thanks again, I'm really glad you share your side with me, and double thanks for being so patient and polite.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 02:55 am (UTC)(link)You're welcome!
I think that this hits home emotionally with a lot of people and that's what causes very, er, passionate responses.
And please don't take this the wrong way, as I realize now through your comments that this is not at all your position, but some of the things you said resemble arguments that real predators and, sadly, their defenders, have said to justify their abuse of persons (in particular children and very young teenagers, but definitely not limited to those age ranges) who were in a very vulnerable position, which is another reason that people reacted this way in the thread.
There is also a very ugly culture of victim-blaming, and those arguments pop up there too ("she wanted it, or else she wouldn't have dressed like that/walked through that street/kissed him/flirted with him/ etc.), and I think people were reacting to that too.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 05:19 am (UTC)(link)Thanks again for the great response, I will try to watch the way I frame my arguments in the future.
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(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 06:17 am (UTC)(link)Of course your opinion should matter! I think many people think that you wouldn't know what you want, or that you were threatened or scared into lying and saying you consented, so maybe that's a fear lurking in the back of their minds whenever they hear that as a response from someone they expect to be a victim. Like, they're expecting the worst case scenario and that colors their opinion as they read your comments.
It's also very hard to tell over the internet, where we can't see your face and body language to see that you're calm and assertive about your words and not indecisive or maybe over-defensive like one would expect in a worst case scenario.
I'm glad to know that things worked out for you irl. Please don't get discouraged by this thread, this is a very tricky subject to discuss even in the best of moods, and there are always fears and subjective past experiences and opinions getting all mixed up into one sticky mess.
Thanks again for the great response, I will try to watch the way I frame my arguments in the future.
You're welcome, and if it helps, I've caused all sorts of... similarly explosive arguments in the past because I didn't realized that what I said could be understood in a different way than I intended. Both in real life and on the internet! It happens. It sometimes takes a lot of trial and error to figure out how to word things in different places and still get your point across.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-08-10 07:32 pm (UTC)(link)I'm not that discouraged, if every response was just screaming at me rather than addressing my points, maybe; but on the contrary a good chunk of my discussion with people was very intelligent, rational, and open-minded.
So thank you very much for contributing to the discussion.