fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2054 ]

[ SECRET POST #2054 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2054 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Tracy Beaker Returns/The Dumping Ground]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

23. [SPOILERS for Usagi Drop]

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24. [SPOILERS for Legend of Korra]

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25. [SPOILERS for XXXholic]

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26. [SPOILERS for Revenge]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

27. [WARNING for abuse and rape]

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28. [WARNING for rape]

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29. [WARNING for rape]

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30. [WARNING for rape]

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31. [WARNING for rape]

[American Horror Story]

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32. [WARNING for rape]

[Sons of Anarchy]

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33. [WARNING for child abuse]

[08th MS Team]

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34. [WARNING for suicide]

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35. [WARNING for gore, animal abuse]

[American Psycho]

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36. [WARNING for incest]

[Chrono Crusade]

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37. [WARNING for underage]

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38. [WARNING for bullying/abuse]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #293.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Loki was being manipulated and threatened by Thanos (not to mention Hiddleston said falling into the void made him more unstable), what's Walt excuse?

Manipulated and threatened? NOPE. Total fanon. All that was canon was that the Chitauri weren't Loki's little lackeys, they were working with him and were capable of hurting him if he didn't hold up his end of the deal by opening the portal.

There was not even the faintest hint that he was being manipulated in any way.

Also, that's not an excuse. If someone threatens to hurt you if you don't kill millions of people, you refuse and let them hurt you.

I kind of got the impression when Thor offered him a way out and Loki stabbed him but had tears in his eyes that he wanted to turn over but he was too in over his head.

By then, yeah I think he thought so too (which isn't an excuse by any means, because being "in over your head" is a bullshit excuse unless you think it'll cause even more deaths — it just makes the scene a lot sadder). But if he hadn't opened the portal and decided to screw over the Chitauri and tell Thor everything on the Helicarrier, he still could've found a way to get the hell out of there without causing the deaths of loads of people, and then worried about hiding from the chitauri because, you know, innocent people first, guy who almost tried to conquer them all second. So I can't really bring myself to sympathize with his regret.

NA

But if he hadn't opened the portal and decided to screw over the Chitauri and tell Thor everything on the Helicarrier, he still could've found a way to get the hell out of there without causing the deaths of loads of people, and then worried about hiding from the chitauri because, you know, innocent people first, guy who almost tried to conquer them all second.

The whole thing could have been avoided if Loki had turned himself in the moment he arrived to Earth. Sure, it would have taken some time to convince S.H.I.E.L.D. that there is a whole alien army after his ass who also want to conquer the whole galaxy, but if he had given them clues about what they should be looking for, either S.H.I.E.L.D., Heimdall, or Odin's magic (because it is apparent that he is capable of doing magic) could have detected that yes, there is something wrong out there. Or, alternatively, since Guardians of the Galaxy is canon in the Marvel movie universe, that means that there are many intelligent and friendly alien species out there whom Odin could have asked to help him confirm whether what Loki said was true or not.

The Avengers would have been assembled, S.H.I.E.L.D. and Asgard would have provided protection to Loki, and his family's anger would have vanished the moment they realized that he basically saved Midgard and possibly Asgard while endangering his own life in the process. Of course it is possible that he still would have had to face punishment for what he did in Thor (for high treason - he could have been pardoned by Odin, attempted murder against the crown prince - Thor would surely forgive him for that, so he could have been pardoned by Odin for this as well, attempted genocide against a rival nation - they could have found some legal loophole concerning warfare to pardon him for this as well, the deaths of two Asgardian guards), but it is also possible that his penalty would have been eased for what he did against the chitauri.

Yeah, and I'm sure SHIELD would've been willing to throw up their hands and let Thor take care of him at pretty much any point in the movie before the wormhole opened, rather than risk having him on their planet any longer. Really, I think that's what makes Loki so tragic to me — the only thing he has to do to stop his evil shit is tell Thor he's tired and doesn't want to fight him any more, and Thor would immediately take him back and do anything to protect him. But he doesn't, because he's too resentful and jealous and stubborn.

Actually, there's substantial canonical evidence that Loki was being manipulated. Just.. not only by being threatened (though he was being threatened as well, that much is clear).

For one, there's the effect the staff has on the Avengers -- it turns them on each other, amps any negative emotions towards each other, and makes them completely unreasonable and violent. Loki had that on him pretty much the entire movie until they got it and after he lost it. It isn't a stretch to say it may have had an effect on him.

Secondly, his eyes. When Loki takes over someone's mind with the staff, their eyes turn bright blue, and they are "knocked out" of his influence by blunt force trauma. Loki's eyes are light blue throughout Avengers... and become dark again (as they were in Thor) only after he gets knocked around by Hulk.

I don't subscribe to the "oh poor woobie Loki" stuff, but I also don't understand how a reasonable fan can look at Loki's appearances in both Thor and Avengers and think there WASN'T something up there. Loki can be a self-serving bastard, and yes, he would absolutely like to break his brother's toys -- but I don't believe he'd go as far as he did in Avengers without outside influence. I could be wrong, and they could later reveal that he just forgot his contacts in Avengers or something, but that's not how it looks to me.

Ah. The famed curseangel. Ho boy.

Just because it's not totally and irrefutably contradicted by canon, doesn't mean it has even a smidgen of actual support. It's still just wild "what if?" theories. If it was meant to be canon, there would've been a mention in the movie that made it canon. This isn't a documentary of real-life events.

Unless Marvel decides that it's a good idea to completely screw over the plot of a highly popular movie by revealing it's villain to be an exploited little flunkie who didn't mean it, and does a retcon in Thor 2 or something, it's not what happened.

Oh, I'm famous? Right, I forgot, I have my own dedicated stalker around these parts and everything, it's mad fun when I bother to comment.

Anyway, I figure that if that theory is true, the reason they didn't mention it is because it will be brought up in greater depth and actually dealt with in Thor 2, when they'll have time to properly work it out. But yeah, as you said, it's just a theory at this point. The problem with such a vast and complex 'verse as MCU, I suspect, is that we're going to have to wait until more of the individual character films, and possibly even until Avengers 2, to work through all of the little details and issues that weren't able to be fully and thoroughly addressed in Avengers.

I don't think it would be as simplistic or "ruin" anything if they went that route, personally. I think it would add considerable depth to what I felt was mostly a phoned in appearance -- Loki in Avengers, at face value, lacked ALL of the depth and complexity that made his appearance in Thor so memorable. He was a cardboard cut-out villain, evil for the sake of being evil. If it turns out, come Thor 2, that that really is all there was to it, I'll be sorely disappointed in their apparent inability to write an ensemble Avengers movie without resorting to turning a three-dimensional, complex, deep villain into a two-dimensional Disney villain who lacks completely in motivation, skill and sympathy.

We're all allowed to have whatever opinions we want, of course. But for me, Loki's appearance in Avengers was the lowest point in the movie, and I'll be kind of pissed if it turns out that was sincerely what they intended with the character.

No. This is not canon evidence. This is a fan theory, which you can explore in fic. Why is this difference so hard to understand.

lol I love how authoritative you are! It must be nice to be so secure in your idea that your way of seeing things is the ONLY WAY and everyone else is clearly delusional. lulz.

It is canon evidence. I cited directly from the canon. I have seen that movie more than five times. If I felt desperately like doing a dissertation on the subject, I could dig out a lot more canon evidence, largely courtesy of my girlfriend who has the best eye for detail I know. Frankly, I can't be arsed, especially not for someone who thinks they know everything about the film and everything that even could possibly, theoretically happen in Thor 2 just because they want to think anyone with another story is wrong.

As I said to the comment above, we won't really know what was going on with Loki until Thor 2, if then. So really, there is no one definitive interpretation of the canon that's absolutely right.

Well, I don't know. I seem to remember there being a lot of "canon evidence" for Harry and Hermione being meant for each other, and most of it was plucked from the text by people with "eyes for detail."

When it comes to picking out minutiae and presenting it as "evidence," I tend to be skeptical, as often times it involves ascribing meaning where there is none.

When did I say everyone else was delusional? I said that there is a difference between exploring what could have feasibly happened without contradicting canon and what was implicated in cano—

Oh fuck it.

Does anyone have a gif of that scene from HIMYM where Ted says Robin's his best female friend, and Lily makes an attempt to get all offended about it but then gives up halfway through with "Ahhh, I don't care, why fake it?"

Okay, obviously you've absorbed more details than i did.... Why was Loki looking so sickly, and kind of fainting some of the time? Particularly when he was talking with the Chitauri? Was it just that accessing that power to speak to them drained him badly, or was something going on that i missed?

I think our working theory right now is that a combination of the taking control of others (and constantly maintaining control over them) and accessing that power to speak to the Chitauri was particularly draining, but we can't really be sure about it. I figure a loooot of things to do with Loki will be revealed in Thor 2, because (to me at least) it's very, very clear that we didn't even get a sliver of the whole story there.

Ah, okay. Interesting. I kind of thought the scepter-thing was an independent source of power, not something Loki himself was powering/maintaining.

I'm sorry, but no.

I've seen that movie more times than it's healthy and I can say, no. His eyes are not light blue through the movie and then go dark blue. They're light blue through the movie because Hiddleston happens to have blue eyes. His eyes are exactly the same color through the whole thing -if anything, they look brown in a couple of scenes but I believe that's due to the distance. The mind controlled eyes are not light blue either, they look like a whiteish-blueish cover over their eyes. If they wanted to say that Loki was controled, they would've used the exact same effect on him, don't you think?

The staff... While I don't discount that the staff could amplify negative emotions, since, well, the Avengers fight each other forgetting completely that there were priorities... Then Loki would've killed Thor upon seeing him rather than make a complicated plan to get captured since his negative emotions center around Thor.

So no. If Loki had been controlled, the movie would've been clear on that. He wasn't controlled, and all the so called 'evidence' is fan-theories. (And I'm sorry, but a man who is planning genocide, fratricide and kills his own biological father while planning the murder of his adoptive father does seem the type to try and conquer a planet without extra influence).

How was Loki trying to kill Odin? His whole scheme in Thor was to make him proud.

He let frost giants into his sleeping chambers when he was defenseless. And the only moment when he actually *says* that he wanted to make him proud is... when he's dangling into the void.

However, since yes, he never says that he wanted to kill Odin, I retract that. He didn't try to kill Odin, just created a very complex scenario that could've ended with Odin dead by accident, not because he wanted Odin dead.

But he still did everything else I said.

(no subject)

blankverses - 2012-08-24 19:05 (UTC) - Expand

I also don't understand how a reasonable fan can look at Loki's appearances in both Thor and Avengers and think there WASN'T something up there.

...seriously? It's one thing to say you've got your own (rather idiosyncratic) take on canon, and another to say the majority of fans are unreasonable for not seeing it your way.

But speculating is all good and fun.

This. He was quite clearly more bitter and more unstable than he was in Thor, probably from, y'know, falling through space and stuff, but "something up"? Lol. I can see how that can be a possibility, but nope, not canonically implied by any stretch of the term.

Lollll.

but I also don't understand how a reasonable fan can look at Loki's appearances in both Thor and Avengers and think there WASN'T something up there.

It helps when one isn't biassed and looking for scenarios to whitewash the pet villain.

It's a fun fanon speculation but treating it like canon is ridiculous.

biassed? The have two asses?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-18 09:31 (UTC) - Expand

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