[ SECRET POST #2066 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2066 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 037 secrets from Secret Submission Post #295.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

yes, let's make this about race (I assume that's what you're trying to do by bring up Boyd)

[(Anonymous)]

tbh if it isn't white, m-slashers don't care

[(Anonymous)]

Hey, not all of us. I'd be so down for Boyd/Isaac, tbh. If only they had more shippable moments together. As is, I think Boyd/Erica are fucking adorable, and it's cool to get a mixed race couple, too.

[cloud_riven]

Boyd/Erica is my unexpected otp. Or, uh, one of the multiple otps I came shipping out of this season. I don't even care if they're platonic super partners (The Hunt gave me those vibes and they are so competent together it's awesome), I just need more of Boyd and Erica interacting together.

[mfirefly10]

Yes! Their dynamic is so fascinating! I hope season 3 brings us a LOT of Boyd/Erica interaction, whether it be as lovers or just partners.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

idk, Common Law has a lot of Wes/Travis fans and Criminal Minds has Morgan/Reid as one of the most popular slash pairings (if not the most popular. I can't remember if hotch/reid overtakes it or not)

[(Anonymous)]

i think hotch/reid was def the #1 ship earlier on in the criminal minds fandom, but morgan/reid is probably tied with it (or even a little more common) now

still... two exceptions in the whole wide world of fandom isn't much

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

I don't know about other fandoms, but the thing about that is, it has to do with the canon's creator, too. Morgan/Reid and Travis/Wes are equals in their respective canons. In most other canons, there isn't that sense of equality. POC characters are usually minor in their roles, so the two main, usually white and male characters get shipped. If we had more characters of equal standing, while there would still be be racism - sadly, yet undoubtedly - I think we'd see more variety in shipping.

For example, had Boyd actually been developed as a character, had we seen his (probably tragic) motivation for becoming a wolf ('cause let's face it, having no friends =/= a debilitating illness or all manners of abuse from your father), had we simply had more representation of him as a character in general, I bet we'd see more fic/art/etc with him. The beta wolves were secondary characters to begin with, but he was the least developed, so while I've read fic/seen art with him, I can't say I'd have much material to write about him with beyond one or two fics.

I'm not sure if this makes sense... TL;DR: If creators of shows would give their POC characters larger roles to begin with, I think that would expand their roles in the eyes of fandom, too. Not in all cases, but surely a lot, as evidenced by popular pairings like Morgan/Reid, Travis/Wes, etc.

[(Anonymous)]

but surely a lot, as evidenced by popular pairings like Morgan/Reid, Travis/Wes, etc.

"surely a lot"? i'm curious about the rest of your "etc." like, i don't even consider those lonely two actually popular? they are teeny tiny fandoms, i doubt they have 1000 fics devoted to them even when combined.

shawn/lassiter is more popular than shawn/gus in psych and psych is another fairly medium to small sized fandom at best in terms of fanart production.

the only popular pairings (in fandom terms) i'm aware of that feature a black person are reboot spock/uhura and maybe arthur/gwen, and those can barely touch their respective fandom's slash pairings.

[(Anonymous)]

i doubt they have 1000 fics devoted to them even when combined.

by they i meant the pairings mentioned, not the fandoms.

[(Anonymous)]

In their respective fandoms, though, they dominate. As someone in Criminal Minds fandom, while it's a close thing, I can say Morgan/Reid is more popular than Hotch/Reid. A popular het pairing in the fandom is also Garcia/Morgan, which is also interracial. I only used Morgan/Reid and Travis/Wes (which only had one season so far, btw) as an example because I'm familiar with them (I ship both pairings myself) and they're the ones that had already been mentioned. Other people have listed pairings below, all of which probably (the ones I recognize, definitely) have POC characters just as integral to their plot as their white ones, which is probably why they play a bigger part in their fandoms.

I'm going to list as many others as I can, which come to mind: Ryan/Esposito in Castle; Zuko/Katara from ATLA and Korra/Bolin/Mako/whatever from LoK; Brittany/Santana on Glee; Eliot/Huang on Law and Order SVU, Virgil/Ritchie in Static Shock; Jacob/Edward in Twilight; Troy/Abed from Community - and etc because there's more. All are moderately popular in their respective fandoms. Some are most popular. And no, racism isn't just something experienced by slash fans. That so many POC characters are underrepresented in their source material is a problem, and at least partially why they're underrepresented in fandom as a whole, not JUST by m-slashers (in case you're the same person who said they were to blame in a lower thread).

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

a bunch of frankly minor pairings (in the sense that i could probably find more sherlock/mycroft fics) listed, save for zutara/lok and brittana.

And no, racism isn't just something experienced by slash fans.

where the fuck did that come from? non sequitur to the max.

(in case you're the same person who said they were to blame in a lower thread).

yeah, well, i'm not.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm genuinely sorry for assuming you were that person. They raised my hackles by implying racism was purely a problem for slashers, rather than fandom and the world as a whole. And for that reason, I was being overly vindictive. Sorry. :(

On your other note, though, Sherlock is a HUGE fandom. In a large fandom like that, any given pairing will likely be more prevalant, because of sheer size alone. For example, I've read a bunch of Draco Malfoy/Blaise Zabini in Harry Potter, which is also an interracial couple, though obviously not a bigwig in the fandom (at least partially because we didn't even know if Blaise was male or female for a while, he was mentioned so briefly). Draco/Blaise probably has more fics than Travis/Wes does, simply because Harry Potter fandom is so large. Relative to their individual fandoms, however, the pairings I've listed are somewhere at the top of their food-chains.

I mean, you can make the case, perhaps, that the fandoms are not that big BECAUSE some of the most important ships involve POCs, but I don't know. There are definitely other factors that go beyond writing all of fandom being off as racist. There are gray-zones. I'm putting forward that we'd see more pairings beyond white character/white character if non-white characters were given more standing in their original canons as a whole. With Twilight, for example, Bella/Jacob's one of the two main pairings, actually more popular than Edward/Jacob (tbh, I don't know, as I've never looked at that fandom's archives), and it's also interracial.

[(Anonymous)]

And yes, yes, they DO. Morgan/Reid, on fanfiction.net alone, has 1278 fics in the 'romance' genre. This amount doubles if you leave the genre open to any choice. There's undoubtedly fic with them as a couple that doesn't use the tag romance.

As for Common Law, it's very small as yet. It probably has fics, as a whole, in the hundreds. But as someone who often checks its archives on AO3 and fanfiction.net, if we discount fic with self-inserts, there are maybe three fics max that AREN'T Travis/Wes.

[(Anonymous)]

Morgan/Reid, on fanfiction.net alone, has 1278 fics in the 'romance' genre.

good to know! genuinely.

[(Anonymous)]

Again, I'm sorry for making unfounded assumptions earlier! I really saw red due to anon below!

[(Anonymous)]

In fairness, people of color are underrepresented on TV anyway, so if we're talking about slashing TV couples, you really can only work with what the casting directors give you. I agree that there should be more diversity in fandom, but it's partly a symptom of a larger issue.

[(Anonymous)]

I think Virgil/Richie was the most popular pairing in the static shock fandom (with Hotstreak/Virgil and Hotstreak/Richie also having fans).

man, I miss that fandom :(

[(Anonymous)]

And Seamus/Dean was a pretty popular fic in HP fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

are we only counting black characters? I can name some shows with a popular black guy/white guy pairing, but I also know more fandoms with a hispanic/asian/whatever popular pairing (to name a couple: csi miami, the walking dead, Heroes, law and order SVU (with Stabler/Huang. It's outweighed by all the het and femslash, but it seems like the most popular m/m pairing), and Castle)

[(Anonymous)]

Wes/Travis shipers from Common Law would like to disagree
(I mean, there are tons of ships with non white characters but to give one as an example)

[(Anonymous)]

Whoa, where were you during the Heroes fandom days? Sylar/Mohinder (a smexy Indian guy) was the most popular ship in the fandom. (Ok, ok, maybe the incesty Italian brothers were tied with them in terms of popularity, but not everybody's into incest so I think Mylar was more popular.)

[(Anonymous)]

matt/mohinder! \o/

it was pretty popular, too.