fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2069 ]

[ SECRET POST #2069 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2069 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

[The City of Dreaming Books]

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

[Teen Girl Squad]

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

[Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind]

__________________________________________________

14.

[Avengers]

__________________________________________________

15.

__________________________________________________

16.

[The Monkees]

__________________________________________________

17.

__________________________________________________

18.

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Important: I'm really sorry about this, but I accidentally clicked the wrong thing and deleted the submission post from last week instead of saving it. Managed to save the first page (25) of secrets, but the rest (a bit over 100) are gone.

If you submitted something last week (Aug 26-Sept 1), please resubmit it here and it will still go up this week.

The submissions post for next week is linked below as usual.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #296.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I am not sure whether I hate or love Moffat for the Ponds thing.

Hate because it seemed like a cheap ploy to make me heartbroken about my OTP breaking up and then they make up and it's amazing and touching and uuuuughhh I love them so much.

Hate also because srsly, childlessness is their chief problem? Did Rory really make a big deal out of it, knowing what she'd been through? YOU ALREADY HAVE A BABY, well not really, well, it's complicated. I don't know, it was just weird.

Then again, the tragedy of it all put them back into focus and their OTP-ery shone through and I was happy, all in all.

Oh yeah and there were some Daleks, that was cool, too, I guess. :P

No, I seriously doubt Rory made a big thing about it, but it didn't sound like they'd even properly discussed it. Amy knew how Rory had always wanted children in previous discussions over their whole lives, and she (or they) found that she could no longer bear children, so she avoided discussing it with him and then tried to cut him out of her life because she couldn't give him something she knew he had always wanted. She let him think she just didn't love him, rather than talk about what was really hurting so badly.

That makes more sense, though again, not the most believable or well-written relationship issue you could've come up for these two. I assumed their marital problems would arise from being now stuck in an ordinary existence sans the Doctor, not unspoken childlessness problems.

Amy never struck me as someone comfortable talking about emotions, or comfortable with some of the emotional details of the sort of relationship Rory would want. Rory has always struggled with feeling that Amy didn't love him as much as he loved her, that she had settled for him, that she would rather be with someone else. I thought it was very believable for these characters, and I could see how it would work, and how Amy would rather make Rory think she didn't love him than talk about it and possibly face her fear that he'd feel obligated to stick with her even though she had "failed" in something that was possibly why she thought he wanted to be with her in the first place. Because she doesn't talk about this stuff.

And I'm a little disgusted with the "but they already had a child" I'm seeing around the place. Seriously, that's like when a child dies and the parents are "comforted" by being told they have other children. And it's not like passing on their genes was their concern: it was that Rory (at least) wanted to raise children.

Adoption, yes, I could see that once they've actually talked about it, but it's not a smooth or easy process. Was Amy a strippergram in this timeline? Did they vanish off the face of the Earth for a while? And Amy still needs to get past feeling like being unable to bear children is her failing Rory.

These are real emotions and real issues that real people like them really feel. I know several such couples. Calling "bullshit" is kind of weird.

And I'm a little disgusted with the "but they already had a child" I'm seeing around the place

In my case, it's because I thought the whole pregnancy plot point was stupid as shit. And if they hadn't had it, Amy being infertile (because of course it's Amy, God forbid it be Rory shooting blanks) would make more sense.

Because if they hadn't had that plot, she wouldn't be infertile. It was whatever they dis to her that left her infertile. And it had to be her, because if Rory had been the one who was infertile he'd have told her "Amy, I'm shooting blanks. You deserve someone who can give you children." and she'd have said, "You daft sausage, I was never that fussed except that you wanted children. I love you, you idiot, so why would I want to break up over this?" and then they'd have looked at what their options were.

It is precisely because Amy doesn't talk about her own feels, and because it is Rory who is broody rather than Amy, that it works at all. If it were Rory who were infertile, it wouldn't have played out the same.

Because if they hadn't had that plot, she wouldn't be infertile. It was whatever they dis to her that left her infertile.

Or, she could have just been infertile. Some women are.

But she HAD children, quite easily and readily. It was a big part of the last two seasons. So obviously her always being infertile couldn't be it.

Did you miss the part where I said I thought the pregnancy plot was stupid? I'm saying she never should have had kids.

But that's hardly relevant to why she ought to have been infertile from the beginning. She obviously couldn't be. And, as others explained, Rory shooting blanks doesn't make sense. I mean, you seem to be taking offense to this episode perpetuating the 'only women can be infertile' stereotype--and it does a bit, but for good, established reasons.

ut that's hardly relevant to why she ought to have been infertile from the beginning.

It's totally relevant. If the stupid pregnancy plot--which served no purpose other than to make River ~special~--hadn't happened, she absolutely could have been. Or Rory could have been.

Hate also because srsly, childlessness is their chief problem?

Wait... what?!

So... they had a kid, but then Moffat that it would be AWESOME to have that child taken from them and raised by other people, yadda yadda... and now they're dealing with being "childless"?

Oh, FUCK YOU, Moffat.

A lot of people are echoing that sentiment on my Twitter feed.

I'm more forgiving when it comes to Moffat (because of conditioning of liking his earlier work so much - see icon), but like I said above, not the best written or the most believable relationship issue with these two. Still, as long as he doesn't break them up for good, I'm fine.

Amy is also now infertile which means no more babbies ever because it's not like the human race has been coming up with ways for infertile couples to have kids for thousands of years, nope.

And it's not like some infertility just can't be treated, nope, or like adoption is a difficult process where not all couples are approved and the process itself can strain or even break marriages, nope. All those childless couples in the UK who desperately want kids but can't have them just must not want them badly enough.

To say nothing of the emotional fallout of finding she is infertile, which is what's really eating Amy up, nope, that obviously isn't real either.

Except the episode presented it as if Amy being fertile meant they could never have kids, ever. They did not address any of the options that are potentially open to Amy and Rory.

And if Moffat wanted us to think it was a matter of emotional fallout over being infertile then he should have made that clearer rather than having pretty much all she had to say on the subject be an awkward, expositiony, 'as you know' speech.

I seriously have no idea how you read all that into my comment. o_o

I thought it was very clear, because if they had discussed it properly earlier then Rory would have already known that was the problem. Seriously, their discussion (while telescoped down) was similar to issues that infertile couples I personally know have had. It is actually how actual people in that situation have been known to act and feel (which is not to say it is how all such couples act). To say that it's not a good reason to act or feel that way doesn't stop it from being how real people act and feel.

I think it's the telescoping that was the problem for me. There just wasn't enough time for the issues to be played out properly and given that it's Moffat I don't think they ever will be, and as a result it came across very strangely to me, and probably to anyone else who hasn't actually been involved in a situation like that personally.

But yeah. I didn't actually think of it that way and your reading definitely makes the whole thing more palatable to me, so thanks.

Agreed.

It would have made so much more sense if Amy just didn't want children any more. 'I got pregnant in a space tube then I had a baby then the baby melted in my hands and I never saw it again until it was a fully grown adult' = valid reason to be put off having more kids.

Why would that have made more sense?

Because 'you desperately want kids and I don't want to have any at all' makes more sense as a reason to break up with someone than 'you want kids and I'm infertile'. Because being infertile is not necessarily a barrier to ever having children.

This, absolutely. I mean, if Amy decided "I don't want to have kids anymore" that might indicate a shift in personality/goals that might make Amy and Rory's relationship more difficult. Being infertile might make having kids harder, but not impossible (through adoption, fertility treatments, etc.)

"Makes sense" in what way? I've certainly known people whose relationship has been severely strained by infertility, because there are emotional issues involved ("I can't bear his children"/ "I've failed to give him/her what he/she wanted"/ and so forth) which Amy and Rory gave no indication of having discussed properly, and because adoption is not actually like showing up to the baby shop and saying "I'd like one in pink please". It is a long and difficult process in which many couples are found unsuitable, and requires you to be intensely scrutinised and answer some very tough questions about what you can cope with.

If you live in the UK, you might have noticed this has actually been in the news a lot recently, with proposed changes to the law to make it quicker and easier. Because it is currently so hard.

My issue is that the episode presented infertility as rendering having children completely impossible and that it didn't properly deal with the emotional fall-out of Amy's infertility. It came across as if it was purely a matter of 'he wants kids and I can't have them, end relationship' rather than of emotional strain/trauma.

Case in point: one kiss and their marriage is apparently fixed. I really hope they deal with this better in ensuing episodes, but really, it's Moffat, so I don't have much faith. He does not have a good history when it comes to dealing with emotional fall-out, especially when it comes to pregnancy.

I'm aware that adoption isn't easy - I'm not an expect on the subject but I'm a queer women and I intend to adopt if I ever decided to have children so it's something I've considered, and yes I am in the UK so I've read a lot of news stories on the subject over the years. But I feel like the episode totally ignored that it was even an option and tbh though I can't think of any specifics I'm pretty ignoring or de-valuing alternative methods of having children is part of a larger pattern. :(

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2069 ]

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY

Re: Doctor Who 7x01 Discussion! SPOILERS AHOY