[ SECRET POST #2082 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2082 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.


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03.
[Fate/Zero]


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04.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]












05. [SPOILERS for Journey Into Mystery/Everything Burns]



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06. [SPOILERS for Avengers]



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07. [SPOILERS for Sweeney Todd]



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08. [SPOILERS]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]














09. [WARNING for depression/suicide]

[Wilby Wonderful (2004)]


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10. [WARNING for abuse]

[True Blood]


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11. [WARNING for rape]



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12. [WARNING for suicide/self-harm]

[Alex Gaskarth/All Time Low]


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13. [WARNING for abuse]



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14. [WARNING for abuse/bullying]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #297.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ],.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[intrigueing]

Except...that's not really what happened at all?

From an in-universe perspective the Helicarrier attack alone would've been more than sufficient to make them get serious about the threat, because that's when they first realized there was a threat at all. Remember, they had already captured Loki and the only thing they were doing between Loki's capture and the Helicarrier attack was cruising around looking for the tesseract so that they could return it to SHIELD and de-brainwash Loki's minions. And so that's exactly what they were doing. They cared exactly as much as they needed to about the threat (until of course they devolved into that shouting match which allowed Clint to catch them off-guard, and that wasn't due to "not giving enough of a shit to do anything" because they were doing everything they could, it was a fuck-up which they paid for). They cared about the threat -- what they didn't care about was the team.

Coulson's death was important more from an out-of-universe perspective, because it made the threat not only serious, but personally emotional and focused for both the characters and the audience. It gave Fury a reason to talk about how he still believed in heroes and tell them why he wanted the Avengers to be an actual team, not "a bunch of people who happen to be looking for the tesseract right now", and a reason for them to take that idea seriously and actually decide to become a real team.

[(Anonymous)]

Can we, then, agree that it wasn't very well communicated? It was the writers' agenda to make us sad and having Coulson acknowledge himself as more emotionally important than all those other people (and yeah, "they couldn't do anything about that stuff at the time!!" the point is they weren't enough later to get the heroes to realize that they needed to cooperate) to serve this purpose makes the character come off as kind of a tool. I feel they sabotaged themselves by setting up the death count for a joke and having one guy be the catalyst for a close-to-tears oh-god-so-sad-look-at-the-trading-cards epiphany that brought the team together later.

See, this is much more fun than Loki wank.

[truxillogical]

I'm still not seeing how that's poorly communicated. Like intrigueing said, they wanted Loki stopped. Each one of them (maybe not so much Bruce) would have personally gone down solo and tried to beat Loki into submission. But Cap, Tony, and Thor...you've got three Type A Leader personalities right there and they weren't playing well with each other.

The movie did a pretty good job of conveying that Coulson's death was the catalyst for the team working together (not "beating the bad guy"). I'm not seeing how Loki racking up an impressive death count prior to Coulson's has anything to do with that. The problems the team had working together were personally emotional problems--they needed a catalyst that was also personally emotional.

[intrigueing]

+ to infinity and beyond. You said it far better than I. :)

[intrigueing]

Nah, sorry, can't agree, because it wasn't badly communicated to me at all. It seemed perfectly clear and totally reasonable and realistic for them to do what Fury asked and work in the same general area to try to stop Loki, but only be personally emotionally affected and have a desire to become an actual team after someone they knew got killed due to their own arrogance and stupidity. There's a nice mildly tragic note to that sequence of events, which fit very well (IMO), because I would've found it extremely OOC for any of the five to be gung-ho about teamwork right off the bat.

Remember, it's not like they were a team and knew they were a team and were thinking "hey, we should be a team" from the start. They only realized that if they had just cooperated, they could have stopped the whole mess after the attack happened. Steve thought he was there because of his knowledge of the tesseract, Bruce thought he was there because of his scientific expertise. Natasha was there because she worked for SHIELD. Thor was only there to retrieve Loki. Tony was the only one other than Natasha who knew about the Avengers Initiative, and not-so-coincidentally was the only one to do any team bonding (encouraging Bruce to consider the idea of being a hero) and was the one to say "so hey, I think Fury's got some other agenda here, anyone wanna check it out?" Bruce even ridicules the idea that letting so many different personalities working in close proximity was anything other than disastrous "what are we? A team? Oh no, we're a time-bomb."

But that's what I got. If you felt the logic of their actions didn't come across clearly, it's a valid criticism to make, because yes, the plots of movies should be clearly communicated to the audience.

[(Anonymous)]

I can see this logic, but I feel this was something the writers could have done better because I know what emotional effect they were going for -- Loki is bad because he kills innocent people; it is sad when Coulson dies because he was a cool guy who was humble and sacrificed himself; the superheroes are good because they're not evil. But then they made the death count the setup for a joke and had Coulson go out with an arrogant line predicting that the Avengers needed something to avenge... so then is he meant to be coming off as presumptuous (unlikely, unless "The Avengers" is short for "The Avengers of Things That Are Partially Our Fault"), or is he establishing that the people before him weren't worth avenging? I wouldn't have wanted the Avengers to be holding hands and singing kumbayah five minutes into the movie, but it also wasn't the only conceivable way to get the plot to come together just because it's the one the writers ended up going with.

[intrigueing]

Well, I don't see it as a direct dichotomy of "Coulson matters, other 80 people don't". I saw it as Coulson's death making the Avengers realize how serious the situation was and kind of bringing it home. Like, the people weren't just random faceless numbers, they were all real people and the Avengers were letting them all down the way they had let Coulson down by not having their shit together.

And...I dunno, Coulson's line isn't necessarily that arrogant to me. Could very well be that he realized that oh, maybe now the importance of this will penetrate their thick skulls after they find out I kicked it. But there are different ways to interpret it, so it's reasonable for it to rub you the wrong way.

[(Anonymous)]

Could be. That's a good way of looking at it, actually.

Well, this is anticlimactic wank. Let's see. Your username is killing me, why is that E there?

[intrigueing]

Honestly? It's a misspelling. I was trying to write "intriguing" (I was like, 14 at the time, don't judge me) because it was Data's catchphrase on Star Trek, but spelled it wrong and couldn't be bothered to fix it because I wasn't really active at the time. :D

Anti-climactic wank is good wank though -- it means people came to an understanding instead of blowing up and flouncing or being hijacked by trolls.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah. I thought it might be an insidious joke. Maybe I should grab could_of and start a prolific commenting spree.

True, true. /tips hat

[(Anonymous)]

I heard it a pretty self-reflective instead of arrogant line actually, saying that these *heroes* realise how threatening Loki-- or any other threat - is (and corollary, how important that they work as a team), not only on a mass scale, but a personal one as well. Coulson's death shows that no one (not even a competent SHIELD agent whom they personally trust) is safe until they're a team. It's also rather sad, that Coulson saw his death serving a purpose for Avengers and it's perhaps even a thought that comforts him. Devotion to service..seriously.

[intrigueing]

This is pretty much how I read that line. I can understand why some people can read it differently and why they wouldn't like the line, but it's doesn't really change my understanding of the line.