[ SECRET POST #2083 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2083 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 110 secrets from Secret Submission Post #298.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Here's the thing, though. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, in principle. I completely disagree with the anon you responded to.

I think it's valid to say that shaming yourself into not partaking in problematic media can, itself, be problematic. I don't think there's a fundamental problem in enjoying things that are problematic, even (especially) if you acknowledge they are problematic. A lot of media has unfortunate implications, and I still read/watch/listen to and enjoy a lot of it. I believe it's better to like things in spite of their faults instead of hating things in spite of their good qualities.

All of that being said, that is *not* how I interpreted the anon you're responding to.

What they said was not "you shouldn't have to hate something just because you acknowledge it's problematic." What they said was that women were too sensitive, and the song wasn't problematic. If you were offended by the song, you were being obnoxious and sensitive and asking to be catered to by the rest of the world, and anon was not. going. to stand for it, not one more second! They used a strawman of "feminists/sjw's want to kill all men," and implied that people who wanted to kill all men were the people who were offended by this song/found it worryingly misogynistic. They heavily implied that to be a "strong" woman, one had to be completely blase and unoffended by clearly misogynistic media.

In addition, you make the critical distinction between finding "nitpicking *yourself*" unhelpful and telling other people they are *wrong* and *overly sensitive* for disliking a song that has strong overtones of misogyny.

I find pretty much no end to the things I find upsetting about that post. I find very few things upsetting about yours.

I am sorry I wrote you a novel! But I understand where you're coming from with the constant questioning of self and the distinction between it and external society (been there), and I think you make good points, and I wanted to clarify that some people would agree with you, but not with the anon you responded to.

Hope you're having a lovely night!

[stainless]

No problem! Put the way you're putting it, yeah, I don't think that other anon was stellar.

I just feel sad when I see people like OP saying "I like this, but..." Not because I think it's wrong to acknowledge that something you like is fucked up , but because there's "I love this, but" and there's "I love this. I feel like there's something wrong with me for continuing to love this." The former is awesome. The latter is really unproductive, IMO.

I totally don't think people have to like the song, or anything else. Hell, one of my personal guilty pleasures is reading de Sade. In no way does that mean I think it's not a seething, roiling mass of problematic, disturbing, triggering, and a whole list of similar GAH I'd be here for a week if I enumerated all of. I have no problem with someone else's reaction being to throw the books across the room and howl in horrified rage at them. It's a perfectly sensible response.

I will say that I do, though, sometimes think that getting too deep into examining media, when that means getting deeply emotionally invested in how much it bothers you, can be a sort of... weak position. There's awareness of fucked up shit and then there's feeling attacked all the time. And feeling attacked all the time is sometimes a reaction to reality, but it's also sometimes about which aspects of reality we choose to focus our attention on. It's not either or to me, it's both and. The world is sexist; I paid tons of attention to this way back when and could barely function. Now, I'm aware the world is sexist but I'm not constantly looking at things to expose the problems in them. And I find that I have a stronger sense of myself. Not because I have my head in the sand or because reality can't touch me, but because some of life really is about how we focus our attention.

So we may disagree on a few things yet :-) But thanks for your kind comment, and have a lovely night.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Thank you a lot for this explanation. I actually found it really helpful for putting into words something I've been thinking a lot about recently. I'm not sure if I'm quite where you are yet, but I've spent a lot of time in the past while realizing that all of my (newfound! exciting! compelling!) interrogation of life for its problematic aspects has had the sum effect of... making me kind of miserable. And it has torn me up a little bit, because it feels wrong to stop examining and questioning and caring about the hateful things that exist in the world, just because it makes me feel bad. But I think I'm realizing that there's a way to be aware of issues of social justice and be thoughtful about checking your own prejudice without being constantly worried about it.

I said in my previous comment that I believe it's a far better thing to say "I like it, in spite of flaws" and not "I hate it, in spite of greatness." And I stand by that, and think maybe that's what I'm trying to get at. It's better to just live your life-- as consistently as you can, avoiding your own prejudice where you can, being thoughtful about recognizing problematic material when you can-- but not dwell. (To reiterate though, this is a few hundred miles and several bodies of water from saying someone can't/shouldn't be offended by problematic things, or that problematic things aren't still problematic, or that people taking offense are overly sensitive.)

Anyways, that turned into a sort of rambling personal story. Basically, we may still disagree on a few things, but that was a thoughtful comment, and I appreciate it.

[stainless]

Thank you for this, anon. I really appreciate being able to discuss this without people telling me that I was on the right track but then got selfish, or my privilege took over, or whatever. :-)

I do think that too much "examining" can make you miserable -- it did me. I'm a BDSMer who likes some porn, so there were always feminists who accepted me and more radical types who wanted me to examine this or get rid of that, or who thought I was trying to deal with a sexist world by trying to act like a man, or whatever else. And being around that kind of stuff -- well, even when you know "those are the extremists; these are the nice people" it makes you doubt yourself.

I don't think that never examining is a solution, though. I don't think that's even possible, actually. We'll always read or watch stuff and cringe at That One Scene. That's probably how "examination" got started. "I read this book, and it was great, but then the sex scene made me feel gross and disturbed. What else is like that? Oh, shit."

But there's "I wish I could like that book, but the sex scenes read like rape to me," and then there's "I have to make sure I read stuff that isn't like that" or "I love that book, but I feel guilty about thinking the sex scenes are hot even though they're a bit creepy."

And that's how I read the secret. Probably wrongly, but I thought it was less "I love the beat and hate the lyrics" but more "I like the lyrics being snarky and fun, but then I go 'Wait, why is that "being a girl?" and feel guilty for laughing." And I don't think that's necessary. I don't think being aware should mean giving up stuff we like. I don't have any problem with "Whoa, that's so creepy I don't like it at all."