[ SECRET POST #2105 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2105 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 107 secrets from Secret Submission Post #301.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

What do you mean 'no'? If a kink meme makes trigger warnings optional, then no one's forcing you to go on if you have triggers.

[anonymouslyyours]

I am sick as fuck and having a hard time both not being a dick and coming up with something that is going to convince an anon on a time-wasting comm to have a little sympathy for people in less fortunate situations so I'm going to stick with:

I do not have triggers myself but can recognize the good it does to take an extra step to try and ensure that I do not trigger emotional trauma in someone looking to relax and engage with like-minded people. And I do not believe warnings censor authors or cause enough inconvenience to people lucky enough to not be affected to justify shunning people who need them.

If you really begrudge taking a extra minute to warn for common triggers then there's really nothing I can say.

[velvet_mace]

I totally understand where you are coming from... but that's not how triggers work. There are people with triggers who are perfectly okay with reading rape fics -- just not ones that include men with beards. And that's the problem. Trigger warnings don't actually protect the people with triggers, they can't, because that's not how triggers work. Trigger warnings are for these broad neat impersonal categories. Actual triggers are specific-to-that-person things. Like a phrase. Like a smell. Like a certain specific situation.

That's why no one can come up with a definitive list of trigger warnings. All they can do is come up with these really broad categories, that then, people fight over. And complain. Are hospitals a trigger? Well they could be to somebody, but who knows if that person is on that meme. Is saying "trigger warning: Hospital" demeaning the idea of triggers? That exact argument happened on a meme I was on. Someone was trying to be sensitive and got chewed out for it. That's why they are so toxic.

The reason why people are annoyed with the idea of trigger warnings on the meme isn't because they are meanies. It's because it's impossible. Flat out impossible to accomodate people with triggers on a meme.

Triggers aren't squicks, though the way warnings are currently set up, what they cover is basically squicks. Whether people's squicks deserve to be accomodated on a meme is another argument entirely.

[(Anonymous)]

Hello, perfectly reasonable person, I want to marry your comment.

[(Anonymous)]

NA

While I understand what you're saying, I really feel like this is a throw the baby out with the bathwater situation. If I were triggered by rape fic including men with beards, and someone had a generic non-con warning on a fic about a character who is sometimes bearded in canon, I would steer clear. People with triggers aren't inherently illogical or looking to be offended; many, like the OP, have constructed checklists of their own that include things that may be clues that a place may not be good for them to read in. Trigger warnings are one piece of that evaluation, not the whole thing. And I have never actually seen someone "chewed out" for warning for something like "serious illness" or "permanent injury", so I find your "hospital" example hard to imagine, although I realize stupid people on the internet have argued over stupider things.

I have a fairly common trigger that doesn't end up in fic much. I don't expect more than general warnings, but you can bet I read summaries carefully when they seem like they might include the thing that triggers me.

So basically, calling trigger warnings "toxic" and saying that they accommodate squicks rather than triggers when a number of other people with triggers are saying they're useful* seems pretty ridiculous to me.

*obviously not all people with triggers find them useful

[velvet_mace]

I say it's toxic because it was toxic to the meme I was on. It caused endless amounts of wank, because no one could actually comply with it.

I don't know where it was on the meme, it was months ago, but yes, hospital was the bone of contention. Because you see mental illness is a trigger to people. So mentioning a hospital might cause people who have been hospitalized to flash back on their pain there. Except that someone else said that Hospitals weren't something reasonable to flash back on, and therefore the writer was wrong to mark it as a trigger warning.

Let me give you the height of absurdity: one person claimed that "Trigger warning: rape" triggered them, and that people shouldn't put what the trigger actually is in the warning.

Like I said, it's one of those things that seems like it should be easy enough for writers to comply with, but practically it simply doesn't work at all, except as something that foments huge amounts of wank.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

In this thread, I see you generalizing from one event (or maybe several events on the same meme, I'm not sure), and that doesn't seem like a helpful conversation to have. Because it's all your word against mine, and I've seen plenty of places where asking people to warn has worked and any wank has been off-meme and invisible to anyone not in close contact with the mods.

You point out arguments that apparently arose in a meme that didn't have a list of standard trigger warnings to be used, and how the lack of clarity harmed the meme. You also seem to be saying that if a comm does decide on a list of things that must be warned for, those things are then being warned for as squicks and not as potential triggers, which is logic that I don't follow.

And furthermore, you seem to be only willing to listen to trauma survivors who prove your point, rather than those who say that warnings are useful (of which there are at least a few in this very thread). If this isn't a conversation you have a stake in as someone with triggers (and I don't know you, so I have no idea) I recommend you take a step back.

[wauwy]

I can confirm her claim. I've seen it on at least three kink memes, and it begins with trigger warning wank

and
never





stops

[anonymouslyyours]

We're almost having two separate arguments here. At no point did I say "squicks" deserve to be included into trigger warnings.

I don't appreciate when people devalue the meaning of "trigger warning" and I don't commonly see what you are describing with "broad categories". I can probably count times I did on one hand. They certainly don't seem harmful enough to throw out the entire concept of trigger warnings.

If a person has a specific trigger like "rape involving men with beards" wouldn't they avoid rape fics, rape fics involving men, or at least stick to prompts involving characters they know do not have facial hair if the comm won't accommodate that specific trigger?

I believe we should cover at least common trigger warnings, people with specific triggers can usually extrapolate from that if the risk if too great, and I personally have been on comms where a member has politely asked us to add for a specific, personal trigger and people did and there were no problems.

I understand you can't warn for everything and people should keep that in mind if their trigger warning doesn't make a kinkmeme's list. I don't think there should be backlash on people who make mistakes when warning, but I don't believe that should mean kinkmemes should be no-go zones for people with PTSD and effort to attempt to include others can certainly be made.

I think what it comes down to is that I am grateful to have so many people who put in the time and effort to create safe spaces for me to enjoy free content, sometimes even geared toward my wishes. I don't see a problem with a little extra effort to include other people. Especially considering the people who need trigger warnings are probably benefited by places to unwind more than I am.

[velvet_mace]

There are no common triggers. Everyone's trigger is specific to them and their trauma. PTSD is not the same as just feeling icky when you are squicked, though a lot of people seem to be conflating them together.

So what you have is a lot of people who genuinely have PTSD who aren't being given any trigger warning because their trigger is for something like the words "Hey baby." And other people who are not triggered are complaining that the lack of trigger warnings, or wrong trigger warnings and making a huge confusing fuss about what needs to be warned for and what doesn't.

I'm not making this up -- this actually happened on a meme, multiple times, with people with actual PTSD triggers chiming in saying this wasn't helpful to them.

As to why may someone with a trigger read a non-con fic -- a lot of rape victims have non-con kinks. They may enjoy reading most non-con, just not one with that one particular thing in it. I was talking with someone the other day about them being triggered by a noncon fic and saying that normally she enjoy them, but the way the characters talked in that one fic triggered her.

I understand that you want a safe space that is geared towards your wishes -- I think we'd all like that, but you and I just two people, and ultimately it is not everyone else's responsibility to go out of their way to provide us that. Especially in this case, where it is demonstratively impossible for fandom to comply.

[(Anonymous)]

You know, I like you. You always have really well thought out comments, you address things calmly, and you're generally a pretty pleasant human being. I even agree with you most of the time.

This is not one of those times. :/

[wauwy]

Hold aloft that torch of sanity, good citizen.