fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2116 ]

[ SECRET POST #2116 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2116 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

[Deacon Frost, Blade]

__________________________________________________

07.

[Legend of Korra]

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

[Luke Wilson]

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

[Transformers: Shattered Glass]

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

[marvel comics]

__________________________________________________

14.

[Pan's Labyrinth]

__________________________________________________

15.

__________________________________________________

16.

[The Walking Dead]

__________________________________________________

17.

[Jackass]

__________________________________________________

18.

__________________________________________________

19.

[Avengers]

__________________________________________________

20.

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 020 secrets from Secret Submission Post #302.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Honestly, I won't speak to most of this because YA has never been my thing BUT Kate is playing a sizable role in the new Hawkeye series so that might have something to do with her not being front and center here. I'm not saying it's a good reason, but it might have played a part in the decision making process.

As for your comments on past canon events... thank you for once again living up to the idea that YA fans don't care about the rest of the universe. Bravo.

Different YA fan stepping in to say that we're not all like that, I swear. I'm actually pretty excited to see that they're branching out with the new book and talking about having them interact with more outside characters. The crossovers that they did with the Runaways during Civil War and Secret Invasion are some of my favorite YA stories, honestly, and I think more interaction with the larger universe is a good thing. I also really like the nods that Gillen is planning to make to past Avenger's story arcs. The fact that kid!Loki is going to be part of the catalyzing force that gets the Young Avengers back together again is kind of awesome, and I love that the first arc is going to be a riff on Ultron.

Although I do have to say that if the guest appearances turn into the clusterfuck of using the YA storyline as a tool to fix/bring back to life random characters that Children's Crusade was, then I will be highly annoyed. But I trust Kieron Gillen to do a good job with them. He's a good writer, he does a good job writing teenagers, and I think he'll do right by them. Also, Kate is pretty awesome in the new Hawkeye.

I agree with everything you're saying here. I really do. I think due to Heinberg's schedule, the YA have been left in their own little corner and while that works on some levels because they don't get pulled into direct contact with all the ridiculous events (the tie ins and such, notwithstanding), it also makes them less visible and easier to handwave out.

Children's Crusade was a mess. End of story. The only reason I picked it up is because I love the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver and I wanted them back in a big way. Aside from a few character moments... it was a waste of time and a waste of a chance to really put the YA into the universe proper. :\

I really don't mind YA fans that are just in it for YA. That's cool. Read on! But don't stomp on characters that have nothing to do with your books because you heard a trope. That's all I'm asking.

Which lots of us have been reading. But Kate is possibly only in the first arc of Hawkeye (she's not mentioned in solicits after this week's issue). Her character may well be title-less again by the time YA comes out in January.

Lots of YA readers (though not, for example, me) do tend to stick to that title. That's because most of the other titles are continually sucked into incomprehensible and ill-conceived Events. I can't blame a lot of people for not having the time or money for such things.

Honestly, if a Hawkeye book makes it past two arcs, I'll be surprised. No matter how good it is. And as I said, it's not a GOOD reason to cut her out of the YA title, but since when does Marvel need a good reason to do anything?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with sticking to the title. My problem comes in when YA fans who do stick to that title speak as experts on characters who have nothing or little to do with YA without so much as checking out a Wiki page. I won't speak as an expert on, say... Guardians of the Galaxy because I've only read a few things here and there. I'm asking others to have that same respect. And from my own experience, many YA-only fans don't do that.

I think they're at three arcs, but the arc are only three issues long, so... (which is nice, I could use less decompression). I just don't think Kate is in any of the future issues. I think it's just going to be about Clint, and Kate goes back to school or whatever.

Ah, okay. I do hear you on that. Like the person up thread blaming 616 Hank Pym for stuff Ults Hank Pym did. I will now hate on a character who I've read in absolutely nothing ever. LOL. It gets tiring some days. I wish more people would be on the happy medium between You Must Be a True Fan and Read ALL the Comics, and La La La Who Cares!

Maybe I'm a little jaded but they had Hawkeye & Mockingbird solicits way past the point they ever published anything so... yeah. Not holding my breath. lol

Yeah, that's all I've got a problem with here, in fact on that very subject! I'm betting nobody could actually read ALL the comics at this point unless that was ALL they did. lol A happy medium, or just a willingness to say "No, i haven't read it, what happened?" would be lovely.

That is true. Instead we ended up with that Widowmaker mini of awful, and then another failed Hawkeye mini. I have slightly higher hopes for this one because it's got bigger names on it, and Movie, but if it dies after six issues, I will fail to be shocked.

Hey, I've totally read every comic with Luke Cage in it! It's possible with C-list characters. I get the "You Must read ALL" attitude more from fan boys (as in the Booth Girl fiasco), than from within fandom, but I've seen it around too. People who've been around longer wanting bouncy movie people to get off their lawn, etc.

Totally agree. You don't even have to read much. People have made comic summaries: http://www.comicsalliance.com/tag/ComicsEverybody/

Oh God... Widowmaker... how I wanted to love that book. Same with Blindspot, which was basically just ship fodder with a little story thrown in. I really want this time to be the charm. I really really do. But I won't be surprised if it turns into another "WE MEANT IT TO BE A LIMITED SERIES!" situation.

I've read every comic Mockingbird's ever been in! :D But yeah, for any of the bigger names... or for any of the long running team books, it's not really feasible. lol I think that attitude comes form a similar place to the "please don't speak about this without checking first" idea but goes to the extreme. Either that or it's just a pissing contest. :\

Exactly! A quick trip to Google will clear up so much!

I think with YA, the reason why most fans probably aren't involved in the Marvel U, is that the comic itself has been pretty staggered, due to Heinberg's schedule (before he just went, "Toss it" and slunk back to television). It came out in 2005/06, then nothing but the odd specials since (YA: Siege, YA and Runaways, etc), the YA hasn't necessarily had to get involved in the Marvel U- not until The Children of the Last Crusade, and now, being handed over to a new writer and penciller for a monthly. Marvel (rightly so), can't wait on Heinberg anymore, and it's the first time in a while since YA is going to be involved in the Marvel U. So cut us YA fans some slack, it's the first time in a long time since we're allowed to socialise with the rest of the Marvel verse. Give 'em some time to catch up.

With Kate Bishop (not highly powered, but an attractive and wealthy and complicated character), I can see why TPTB like her, hence hooking her up in the Hawkeye book. To be honest, out of all the YA gang, I think Kate Bishop might be the only one as an active character in the next five years or so. Her story is rich, and she can go all ways, and slot in anywhere, no question.

I think the thing with the new YA is, yeah, they have Kid Loki - but he's been popping up everywhere, so I can understand why people might not be waving the flags and bringing out the brass band.

Kate Bishop will be in the new YA, iirc. I can get why, she's like, their patron or something.

Edited (unclear syntax and dodgy grammar) 2012-10-19 09:33 (UTC)

Marvel should have stopped waiting on Heinberg years ago. They dropped the ball big time there. And personally, Children's Crusade wasn't worth the wait. As for cutting them some slack, that's not really what I have a problem with. It's the assumption of canon without checking it out. The best example I can remember off the top of my head was a fic where Clint showed up and had a doctorate. And when someone mentioned that didn't really fit the character, the author went off about how canon outside of YA didn't matter. That stuck with me. It's an extreme case, but every time I've tried to stick my toe in the YA fandom, something along those lines comes up.

I don't think it's asking too much to check things out before writing fic or running off at the mouth about a character you aren't completely familiar with. Wiki is our friend for this stuff!

As for the rest of it... I do like that Loki's bringing them back together and all that. It's a lovely nod to the original Avengers origins. But there's a good chance I won't be reading the book unless something mind blowing and spectacular comes out of the solicits in the next few months.

Marvel should have stopped waiting on Heinberg years ago. They dropped the ball big time there. And personally, Children's Crusade wasn't worth the wait.

I concede both points here. But then I think about Fraction and Alan Davis wanting YA, and get the vapours, so probably its for the best that it's ended up as it has. Really.

Clint showed up and had a doctorate. And when someone mentioned that didn't really fit the character, the author went off about how canon outside of YA didn't matter.

Yeah,that's crazy. I'm a YA fan through and through, but canon does matter. I get your concerns with YA fandom, yeah. To be fair, if it's not Billy/Teddy, other characters and lives don't get a look in save Yuletide, so I hear you. I do think the spotty canon continuity has given rise to that problem of Navel Gazing, and with the new book hopefully less about Billy, and his needs, it can open up a bit.

I don't think it's asking too much to check things out before writing fic or running off at the mouth about a character you aren't completely familiar with. Wiki is our friend for this stuff!

Again point. That's like, me and half the Avengers fic out there right now, LOL. But I can see why YA would be a relatively no fuss canon to hang out in, you can get caught up with a few hours of reading. Other Avengers stuff (excluding the movies), not really.

As for the rest of it... I do like that Loki's bringing them back together and all that. It's a lovely nod to the original Avengers origins

Yeah, again I'll give it that. But as I said before, with Kid Loki popping up everywhere, and sucking up all the oxygen wherever he appears (he's a fun character but yeah, drama), I can see why fans would be wary.

Have a good day, and thanks for answering.

To be fair, if it's not Billy/Teddy, other characters and lives don't get a look in save Yuletide, so I hear you.

I did catch a lot of that vibe the few times I poked into that corner of fandom. And the navel gazing as well. I went in looking for some fic on the characters I'd liked and found very little outside the Billy/Teddy stuff. But, hey. Pre-movie Avengers fandom should have prepped me for that. ;) LOL

But as I said before, with Kid Loki popping up everywhere, and sucking up all the oxygen wherever he appears (he's a fun character but yeah, drama), I can see why fans would be wary.

Oh absolutely! I get why it could be cause for concern, and I'm iffy on the idea of him being part of the team itself. It does seem like a "This character is popular! Put him everywhere!" play.

ayrt

lol, your comment is hilarious. Why should fans of any given title have to necessary Give A Big Fuck about every other title and the entire fucking Marvel universe, again? Please, tell me why I should feel obligated to read every comic ever in order to be a proper and "good" comics fan, so I can laugh at your elitist more-of-a-fan-than-thou bullshit.

I do mostly follow YA. The rest of the MCU tends to be, as someone else described it, a big clusterfuck. It's all interconnected and goes back decades, and frankly, I have neither the time nor inclination to read all that shit. It's hard enough to contextualize the events of the YA specials and all that good shit when everything MCU has to offer is so intrinsically tied into sixty thousand other things and 50+ years of history that it's impossible to decipher half the time.

Also, seriously, I don't give a fuck if YA fans do or don't care about "the rest of the universe." Or what you think of me as a YA fan, for that matter.

Oh, and.. also? Not that it matters in the least, but YA is hardly the only Marvel comics line I follow, so you can take your fandom stereotypes and elitist crap and bite me.

MCU is an acronym for Marvel Cinematic Universe, not Marvel Comics Universe.

fffuuuu I'm sorry, I totally fucked that up. I was annoyed and tired, forgive me?

You don't have to read anything. I don't care what you read. But when you speak about characters outside the corner you've chosen in a way that indicates you're aware of one trope or event and nothing else, but play it off as you being an expert, it doesn't look good to those who are aware of the canon.

I mean if I as someone uninitiated railed on and on about Kate Bishop being nothing but another tough girl trope or Patriot playing up the angry young black man stereotype, I'd no doubt get rightfully called on my lack of understanding. But I wouldn't do that because I don't know their story.

I'm not saying you have to read everything ever. I'm saying don't shoot your mouth off about characters you aren't familiar with.

ayrt

Oh, is this related to the person above who's accusing me of being "insensitive" because I don't write off everything Hank Pym's done because he wasn't "in his right mind" at the time? I'm guessing it is, huh?

Saying that someone deserved what they got when the punishment was the result of actions preformed while suffering from severe mental illness is pretty insensitive, actually, yes. To say the least.

Especially since you're doing it simultaneously to pleading clemency for your favourite character because of his mental health issues.

I'm usually the last person on earth to defend Hank Bloody Pym, however, I feel really uncomfortable with what you're saying about him here.

I don't think you're insensitive. I think you're grossly misinformed. You weren't even aware of which canon you were talking about. That alone makes your opinion on the subject questionable.

But go ahead. Write off a character for one panel from 31 years ago. While you're at it, you may want to write off Reed Richards for smacking Susan while she was brainwashed or putting his own son in a coma because he couldn't control his powers. Or Clint Barton for siding with his wife's rapist when she let him fall off a cliff. Or Peter Parker for selling his marriage against his wife's and his aunt's wishes so May could live a few more years. Or any of the other horrible things all these characters with any kind of history behind them have done.

I should point out that none of these characters have paid for their crimes in the way Hank Pym has. No jail time, no apologies (at least not for a full fifteen years in Clint's case), no acknowledgement that they've done wrong. Whereas Hank as done everything in his power to atone for his crime. He started a charity that helps women in the situation he put his wife in. He headed a school for kids with powers that were abused under Norman Osborn's HAMMER rule. Janet herself forgave him, at least enough to try and reconcile after Avengers: Disassembled.

So yeah, insensitive, no. Misinformed and unwilling to admit it? Yeah. I'd say that label fits.

ayrt

Actually, I was sure about which canon, I merely mentioned that I also held a lot against Ultimates Hank, but w/e.

And actually, I have written off those characters, mostly for those reasons. So, you know, whatever.

I think it's good that Hank tried to atone for the shit he did. I don't think it makes him an amazing person who is suddenly not guilty of that shit. And I don't think Billy's done anything to deserve being compared to someone who has done that kind of shit. Oh my god. Call the press.

Ultimate Hank isn't 616 Hank. Or Movie Hank (if and when he shows up). Different canons means different characterization.

Nobody is saying he's righteous citizen number one here. Only that he's put far more effort into making up for his wrongs than most characters bother with. He's still guilty of those things, and he'd be the first person to tell you that. But there's genuine remorse there whether you like it or not.

No. Billy's an innocent little angel that got two of his teammates killed because he couldn't leave well enough alone and never listens to anyone who thinks that maybe he's not thinking things through. My mistake. :|

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2116 ]

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Damn, dazzle. Throw down!

Re: Damn, dazzle. Throw down!

Re: Damn, dazzle. Throw down!

Re: Damn, dazzle. Throw down!

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject